Obama's speech, and my daughter's tears

POSTED BY: RocketJock
UPDATED: Sunday, March 30, 2008 15:32
VIEWED: 11731
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SIGNYM

Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:32 PM

Quote:
Obama has played the race card since he started campaiging, and this speech, no matter what the words spoken, are the epitome of his using the color of his skin to try to get into office.

It would make absolutely no sense for Obama to 'play the race card".

Why?

Because there are way more bigoted whites that guilty whites and blacks combined. Up until Rev Wright became an issue, Obama was running as a dark-skinned white. He didn't refer to race, only to his goals. If you want to see WHY he didn't refer to race, you have only to look at his poll numbers afterwards.... the Wright issue brought out all the paranioa and bigotry that up until then had been hiding in the closet. In other words, he was trying to avoid exactly your kind of response.

with you 6ix.

CTS- great answer.
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Let's party like it's 1929.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, March 27, 2008 4:16 PM

Man's got a right to his opinions though.

Cause something you said about a jewish candidate kinda hit home on me, sad that it is to say, given their historical behavior going all the way back a thousand years and so... no, I could not bring myself to vote for one, and do I feel maybe some guilt for that, sure - but peoples attitudes are influenced by their concept as a whole of a belief or people by those they have met and interacted with.

I live right near a very large community of arabic and muslim folk who hate those fanatic dickheads, since a lot of em moved HERE to get away from em, and I don't have issues with those folk so much cause I know em, can relate, have learned to understand them as people, see ?

They've been pretty open (although less so recently, in our vilifying of their belief and race as of late, society-wide) and engaging with those willing to hold an open mind and learn about them... not so sure about a president, but you know, I sure wouldn't mind a muslim economic adviser, they take as dim a view of usury and general chicanery than I do.

But every time I have tried to relate to jewish folk, it's like meeting a stone wall, they're a very insular people sometimes, sure, it seems to be part of their culture, but thing is folks...

If you don't understand someone, don't really comprehend their motivations, their beliefs and what drives them, that lack of knowledge leads to fear and distrust, especially in light of behavior patterns that, without that knowledge, are only interpretable by speculation.

I'm not entirely sure I would call that outright bigotry, but more of a human guardedness about folks who's motivations, goals and ambitions are unknown to you - we fear the unknown, and what we fear, we certainly don't trust.

My differences with catholics/protestants are different matter entire - the more I know about em, the more that I DIS-like them, to be honest about it, and I have my reasons.

Anyhows, I doubt so much that Jack is buying the vilification, as much as he does not know or understand those folk enough to place any trust in them, which might look like bigotry on the face of it, but bigotry is rooted in hate, and it just didn't seem like it to me, any more than I would consider myself anti-semetic for not trusting folks who's drives, motivations and culture *I* do not know or understand because I've been unable to connect with them enough to do so.

That bein said, if yer ever in this neck of the woods, I got some folks you might wanna meet Jack, remember, they're forbidden to partake of the fermentation of the grape (wine) or of wheat (whiskey), but in thier book milk (kefir) and honey (mead) are A-Ok, you see...

Believe me, a couple rounds of raised glasses with some doner kebab around the table, and you'd soon realize a lot of em are the same kind of assholes we are!

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

RUE

Thursday, March 27, 2008 4:39 PM

My biggest experience with 'Jewish folk' was as a university student with other students. I had the impression 'mom and dad' sent them as far away as possible from NYC to a place where they could still be in the state. And then my biggest gripe was that they were too loud and too stuck on themselves - which had to do with coming from the NYC area more than anything. I was asked once by a well-meaning but completely ignorant NYC mother if western NY had its own water supply or did it come from 'the city'. (Apparently she did not know there actually were other cities on the planet or that that water in NYC didn't come from NYC it came from elsewhere.) As someone once said 'there is no one quite so provincial as a person from New York City'.

The experience didn't give me any impression of Jews, but I never again had an interest in visiting the nest where all the NYC folk came from.

SIGNYM

Thursday, March 27, 2008 5:07 PM

Yanno Frem, I can''t imagine two politicians LESS like each other than Russ Feingold and Diane Feinstein. One is a staunch supporter of what I call 'true Ameican values' and the other is just a neocon in drag.

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Let's party like it's 1929.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:43 PM

Exactly, Sig.. they're people like anyone else, and folk I wouldn't mind understanding a little better, but they don't make it so easy.

The only contact I have that's any kind of open with me is a young guy, almost a kid, really - but for whatever reason, his grandfather, who almost never says nothing at all, saw fit to give me a WWII Polish Radom Auto for Xmas, with a handwritten note saying it had a very dark history and he could think of no more redeeming hand in which to put it.

I was kind of awed by that, for a lot of reasons, but I still don't *know* the guy, he says very little to me, although he did mention a certain level of cultural paranioa, which did put a new light on some things, and yet still I know almost nothing - and it's not my way to pry, you have to invite me into your mentality, offer me a door or a window to look into.
(His mother made a vampire crack when I said that...)

I get the feeling they don't much care for me, but I am not so very sure that is accurate, since they obviously support what I do a great deal, it just bothers me that I have little comprehension of what drives their actions, and as you can imagine, that drives me a bit bonkers, you know.

It's not just important to know people do things, it's important to know WHY, especially when dealing with other cultures cause it's oh so easy to be mortally offensive when you do not mean to be, or get blindsided that way, see ?

As for Obamalamadingdong...
(found out yesterday to my tremendous amusement that I ain't the only one who calls him that!)

We are, nationally, in a pretty bad spot, and to pull us out of this nose dive, sure, hope is important, but also some harsh measures, like cutting foreign aid as an example, that really NEED to be done are political suicide to do.

And we need someone hardheaded enough, just plain jackass stubborn enough, to commit political suicide in the doing of their job, and I don't think the man has it in him cause he ain't arrogant enough, stubborn enough, or flat out mean enough to do the ugly, nasty job were about to set in front of him.

But I don't think Billary or McCain got what it takes neither..

McCain might try to put the brakes on, though I doubt it, his party is so invested in the direction we have taken, and so horribly afraid of being able to admit they were wrong, especially when it might lead to some of them doing time, that they'll go full steam ahead right off the cliff and carry us with em.

I like Obama, I just think that the shitstorm of a job we're about to hand him will crush and bury him cause he ain't got the nasty it'd take to stand and deliver in a place that ugly.

I'd love to be wrong about that, but I don't think so.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

FLETCH2

Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:47 PM

People are people, you judge them by what they do not by the labels they have. Jewish president? Jon Stewart gets my vote (if i had a vote...)

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
That's a good point Fletch.

You'd think that his campaign team would do a little research before writing that into his speech beforehand, ya know, with the Wikipedia just begging to prove everyone wrong. Or in your folks case, IMDB.

Except that Senator Obama wrote the speech in question himself, and reportedly didn't let anyone on his staff review it. Which lends credence to the "Family Legend" theory, I think.

Well.... can't argue that my man. If you believe what a sneaky lying politician and what his campaign team want you to. Call me cynical, but the man is just as full of shit as any other politician who has ever run for office.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

RUE

Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:09 PM

So, uhm, if he lies like everyone else, and is a politician like everyone else, and has plans you don't like everyone else - what's your sepcific beef against him then ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SIGNYM

Friday, March 28, 2008 1:23 AM

Because he's black (well, part black) and a Muslim (well, he's not that either) and he's running on race (not really).

I guess I don't know!

Maybe 6ix can 'slpain.

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Let's party like it's 1929.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, March 28, 2008 5:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Because he's black (well, part black) and a Muslim (well, he's not that either) and he's running on race (not really).

I guess I don't know!

Maybe 6ix can 'slpain.

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Let's party like it's 1929.

Well Signy, I think I summed it up pretty well about a month ago in my thread about his proposed healthcare plan. Personally I think it's one of the most horrifying pieces of suggested legislation that I've ever seen and it will inevitably lead to the path that only the rich can have kids and the state will eventually start taking the kids that parents can't afford to insure. Huxley predicted this back in 1932, and I see Obama's proposed legislation on healthcare to be the catalyst necessary for our great grandchildren to find themselves in a world where more children are being raised directly by the state rather than their own flesh and blood families.

And thank you Frem for understanding again where I'm coming from. Things seem to make sense so much to me when I'm writing them, and I don't know if it's my failure or thiers, but people seem to twist my words into something I didn't mean in here very often. It must be so easy for some people to stand up on that pedastal and sit in judgement of other's thoughts and have words like bigotry and racism up their sleeves to immediately render their opposing view helpless. Being a white guy, I've been made to feel like shit about who I am because of what history tells us and I'm sick of that shit. I'm calling bullshit here, and you people are calling me a racist for it.

I'm sure that on an individual basis as one person to another I'd probably get along just fine with the people you speak of Frem. I've been quoted as saying in these threads before that the black guys I worked with were some of the easiest to get along with out of all the people I've ever worked with. Funny thing is, I also happen to have a bunch more in common with a lot of them, what with my general distrust of politicians, lawyers, cops, CEOs, etc., than I do with my white coworkers. I've also said that 75% of the people at least that I've ever met are assholes and about 90% of them were white.

Bottom line is, and I'm putting it in bolded caps this time so you make no mistake about my point here. YOU WOULD NOT EVEN KNOW WHO OBAMA WAS IF HE WAS NOT BLACK. That's the undeniable truth.

There is nothing else at all that is extraordinary about him. He's a one term Senator with no history of getting anything done. There is no way that anyone can argue to the contrary, except to throw out words like racism or biggotry. The fact is, he's a smooth talking, charismatic person, he's not bad looking, he's young, but most importantly he's different.... and he's faced with a nation of people who are just so fed up with the status quo they're just begging and pleading for something entirely different.

Let me ask you all this.... Do you think we'd have our first female and first black frontrunners as president if the economy was doing great, there was no war, we weren't all being spied on, and the Constitution wasn't being used as toilet paper for the big boys everyday? I don't think so. That's not to say that when having female and black Presidents become the norm that it wouldn't happen then, but not the first time. What better time to introduce them both as something so different that they just have to do a better job based on the sheer virtue that they're so different than the stereotypical rich old white assholes that have been making life hell for most of us?

Simple political strategy, that is.

And yes, I don't want a Muslim in office now either. That's my goddamned right to feel that way now and it's not bigotry. Especially since we've done such a fine job pissing them off for the greater part of a century. The biggest problem I have with the whole thing is why is he trying to hide his heritage so much? If America is truly of the mind that having a Muslim president is no

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