It's been 6 years since Firefly, the show seems dated and other series are better now...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, March 22, 2008 16:39
VIEWED: 17367
PAGE 7 of 9
Thank youisall
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Enterprise mighta worked if they had not made the same mistakes they make every single time.
1. The breaking of the vulcan stranglehold and birth of the federation in response was a GOOD storyline, nicely morally grey, and a great setup to contrast racial outlook and philosophies without laying a lot of blame or getting preachy about it - and also a handy way to introduce and explore races we don't know a lot about in the Trekverse, like Andorrians, etc...
"Since you helped me, I haven't been sleeping too well, and I LIKE my sleep!"
I liked him... only saw a few eps before I saw where it was going, but I liked that guy, really.
But no, they tossed out the best storyline they ever coulda had for the usual formulamatic trektripe.
2. Yes, the ship was undergunned and defensively weak, and it shoulda STAYED THAT WAY - but for the folks who write trektripe they just can't mentally allow a ship that isn't superior in some fashion to anything they run up against, cause, you know, then they might have to negotiate from a terrible position or actually think their way out or.. heaven forfend! the curse of kirk!, actually fight *dirty*... but nooooo, can't have that.
3. Substitution of technology for story, nuff said, it's a staple of trektripe.
4. Time travel, another staple.
5. Trying to link it up in some inexplicable badly done halfassed fashion with every other piece of trektripe out there, therefore screwing up not only it's own continuity but that of all the rest of it too, further demeaning the works.
Cause it just can't be... UNRELATED, yanno.
I didn't hate Enterprise for what it was...
I *despised* it for what it COULD HAVE BEEN... and wasn't, cause it was never allowed to be.
-Frem
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Quote:I thought it coulda been better also.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I didn't hate Enterprise for what it was...
I *despised* it for what it COULD HAVE BEEN... and wasn't, cause it was never allowed to be.
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Hey out of curiosity anyone remember the Wild Palms mini series? It's been a long time since I saw that show... I've totally forgotten what the hell it was all about.
I got the Wild Palms dvd a couple of weeks ago but haven't watched it yet, and right now I can't remember if I got it from amazon, deepdiscount.com or ebay. I vaguely remember when it was on originally but I don't think I ever saw any of it. I was working two jobs at the time and wasn't watching much tv at all then.
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Hello Chrisisall:
I'd hate to be the lone voice of dissent, but I have to say something that's been slowly building in me over the last two years.
My enthusiasm for FIREFLY/SERENITY is waning. I know I bought the SE DVD of the movie, and when it and FIREFLY finally come out on Blu-Ray, I'll be picking them up (SERENITY and KNOCKED UP are two 'Versal titles I'm itching to get on Blu-Ray. I'd add BACK TO THE FUTURE trilogy, but I think that's going to take a while.). And I picked up the first issue of BETTER DAYS on Thursday and loved it. And it's still my dream project to cast Jewel and Sean in the lead roles of a romantic drama in the vein of BEFORE SUNRISE/SUNSET.
But to tell you the truth, I am getting a little sick and tired of hearing how FIREFLY is the best TV show of the decade and that everything that came before, except for BUFFY (but not ANGEL for some reason), and after sucks and isn't fit to lick the dirt off FIREFLY's boots. Don't you guys have other shows to watch that might have touched you in some way even more than FIREFLY?
I'm a TV junkie, so I watch way more than I should. In 02, along with FIREFLY, I was obsessed and in love with another new show that got royally screwed over by it's network. That show was BOOMTOWN. Pretty much took the cop show formula and breathed new life in it with it's Rashomon POV structure and it's beautifully flawed and complex characters. David McNorris could give Mal a run for his money in the "tortured character" department. Where's the passionate fanbase for that? And 24 was improving on it's already first great season with another great season that ratcheted up everything else about the show that blew my mind the previous year. And over on HBO, THE SOPRANOS and SIX FEET UNDER were continuing their stellar runs and showing truly incredible stuff.
And since then, sci-fi and fictional TV in general has gotten a lot better. Even just the regular run of the mill stuff has gotten funnier, more exciting and just plain interesting with it's plots, characters, visuals and stories. Yes, TV would be better if there were fewer CSI spin-offs, AMERICAN IDOL knock-offs and more journalistic integrity. But there's the time honored tradition of changing the channel or just turning it off.
Don't you think it's more interesting and exciting to see new episodes and characters and worlds on a regular basis as opposed to watching the same 14 episodes of a 6 year old series over and over again? I don't care if it's a layered series that you can discover new things when you watch it. Watching the exact same thing over and over again gets boring.
I dunno. I just find it hard to believe that FIREFLY is the be all/end all of television when I've seen the last hour of Greek tragedy and bullets of Day 1 on 24, the touching, raw and ultimately redeeming quality of SIX FEET UNDER's exploration of life and death and it's mind-expanding finale, the incredible depth and epicness of THE SOPRANOS, the high wire act of comedy that was ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT, Pam crying in the hallway on THE OFFICE, Jack's plea of "We have to go back!!!" on LOST, Hiro's "Yattah' in Times Square and Noah's and the Petrelli Bros. act sof sacrifice on HEROES, the fun and touching adventures across space and time with DOCTOR WHO, Ned and Chuck making abstinence seem cool and sweet on PUSHING DAISIES and many other individual moments and series over the years that has astounded me.
I just think we should look elsewhere is all.
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"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."
Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack
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Yes another insanely long post from StrangeBird... my less literate and patient brethren may skip and read the first and last paragraphs I summed it up nicely for you at the end. Those of you who already quit reading? You should relax more, no more caffeine for you.
I think I understand reginarodie's point. It's sorta what I was trying to say in my own posts. Alot of what makes us love Firefly so much was the fact that it failed. It was probably the best TV in the first half of the decade. At least as far as Scifi goes. It's definitely one my favorite series. I sometimes get a little carried away in describing my love for the show. And my tendency to... over-exaggerate tends to dominate my posts. I've only been a Browncoat for nearly two and a half years. I first watched when it aired on Scifi. I caught two episodes then didn't see it again until I bought the DVD for Serenity, remembering the series I bought it as well. I think I'm one of the few late comers to the scene who watched the series in it's entirety before seeing the movie.
There have been moments of other series that have touched me. If any of you were lucky enough, and interested enough to watch Journeyman in it's entirety then you'll get what I mean when I say the last few minutes of the finale were easily some of the best I've ever seen on TV. It ends on such a satisfying and sad yet promising and exciting note that it hurts alot that there will apparently be no more of it.
I love Chuck. It's had both seriously thoughtful points as well as downright nearly pee your pants hilarity. It's cast has the same honest charisma seen in Firefly's cast. Not alot of shows have that with it's entire regular cast as well as the recurring. In my opinion if any show were to ever look and feel better than Firefly, to me anyway, it would be Chuck. Not just because Adam's in it either.
I'm not at all a fan of either Buffy or Angel. I never got either show and couldn't get into the plots or the silly prosthetics that make TNG look like Lord of the Rings. What little I've seen did have Joss' trademark wit and intelligence... It just wasn't my style. Neither is BSG, Doctor Who, Torchwood or half the other shows people seem to really like these days. I guess that just makes Firefly more special to me. I can find flaws if I look hard enough but even then I can still enjoy it immensely. I understand it... and even when I understand the how or what of other shows I usually don't get the why. Lost is a very good example of that. I get what the writers are going for, I just don't understand why.
Heroes is good but it's never fully where it should be. If every episode were structure like "Company Man" it would be as good as Firefly. As it is it jumps around too much and has too many weak plots going at once which draw away from the usually interesting and well done central story arc. There have also been time where the exact opposite were true. That problem and some sub-par acting are the only downside to the show. Season 2 has been both better and worse then season 1. Sounds odd but with a show like Heroes it's possible to suck and score at the same time.
I still think there hasn't been anything in the space fairing scifi to top Firefly, before or since. There's been television that's touched me as deep and entertained me as much but not often at the same time as Firefly does. Firefly isn't the greatest show of all time... it's just my most favorite. Please no one kill me for that.
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"When you can't do something smart, do something right." -
quoting Book
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I think in the case of HEROES vs FIREFLY, I think with Joss, he knew that the show could be canceled at any moment, so he knew that they had to make the most of it with the time and money they had. I think that if FIREFLY was huge out of the gate and had LOST's and HEROES' popularity, that maybe they would have eased up and it wouldn't have been as good as it was.
With HEROES, since they do have the luxury of not being afraid of being canceled at any moment, they can take their time in setting characters and plots up before really exploding with tension and quality. So while at times it may be a bit slow, it's only because they're building steam for the really big payoff episodes. They never had their head up their asses, like LOST did for a year and a half. First year, awesome. Second year, aside from the Desmond/Penelope plotline, nothing really exciting or interesting happened. Half of the third year was sitting around, literally. But amazingly enough, they got things moving again, and then culminating with the "We have to go back" flash forward. And so far this season, they've been going full speed and not stopping.
As for the "suck and score at the same time", I'd have to say BSG fits that to a tee. It's maddening, drawn out at times and incredibly bleak. You can tell that they're killing time with the in between episodes, even though I wish they could do at least one episode told from the POV of one of the civilians on the ships. BSG has too much of a military fetish for my tastes. But the 9/11 and war on terror allegory works at times, and when they do focus on their big moments, they do it perfectly.
Also with you on JOURNEYMAN. Might have had a slow start, but the last few episodes did have some great stuff in it that could have lead to greater moments.
But the main thing is that I agree with you. FIREFLY was a great show, but the medium of TV wasn't invented so that fifty odd years later it would create it. Get over yourselves. Joss has as much faults as he does qualities. And I think it's somewhat stagnating to hear unanimous praise heaped onto any one show or movie.
**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."
Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack
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You were right at the top. Now Paris Hilton has her new show New BFF for us all to watch. Remember that smash top hit show in 2002? On E! network, it was with Anna Nicole Smith?
No need to watch anything else.
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Quote:Personally, I find myself watching it less often, but when I do see it, I'm as thrilled as ever.
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
My enthusiasm for FIREFLY/SERENITY is waning.
Quote:MORE? Not really. Dark Angel equaled it for me on occasion...and Buffy too & Heroes to a small degree...that's pretty much it, series-wise. I'm lovin' Stargate Atlantis, but really, it's just fun nonsense, and Trek is where I come from, but even most of that just doesn't have the heart FF/Serenity does.
But to tell you the truth, I am getting a little sick and tired of hearing how FIREFLY is the best TV show of the decade and that everything that came before, except for BUFFY (but not ANGEL for some reason), and after sucks and isn't fit to lick the dirt off FIREFLY's boots. Don't you guys have other shows to watch that might have touched you in some way even more than FIREFLY?
Quote:Hence my watching it less often- an attempt to keep it 'special'.
Don't you think it's more interesting and exciting to see new episodes and characters and worlds on a regular basis as opposed to watching the same 14 episodes of a 6 year old series over and over again? I don't care if it's a layered series that you can discover new things when you watch it. Watching the exact same thing over and over again gets boring.
Quote:All good, but sorry Reg, no Firefly.
I dunno. I just find it hard to believe that FIREFLY is the be all/end all of television when I've seen the last hour of Greek tragedy and bullets of Day 1 on 24, the touching, raw and ultimately redeeming quality of SIX FEET UNDER's exploration of life and death and it's mind-expanding finale, the incredible depth and epicness of THE SOPRANOS, the high wire act of comedy that was ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT, Pam crying in the hallway on THE OFFICE, Jack's plea of "We have to go back!!!" on LOST, Hiro's "Yattah' in Times Square and Noah's and the Petrelli Bros. act sof sacrifice on HEROES, the fun and touching adventures across space and time with DOCTOR WHO, Ned and Chuck making abstinence seem cool and sweet on PUSHING DAISIES and many other individual moments and series over the years that has astounded me.
Quote:Nothing but love for that sentiment- just don't expect to find better.
I just think we should look elsewhere is all.
Unless Dollhouse rocks.
Keeper of the faithisall
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Bah, the word "Fan" is derived from fanatic in the first place - so it's not like you don't know in advance folks are gonna be touchy about it.
Sayin Firefly was top dollar doesn't mean there ain't other good stuff out there, but in our opinion, not *AS* good, especially mine, cause if any of were even close I'd be watchin it...
Firefly's quality overcame my personal hatred of television and it's programming style.. just for a little while, and no other show has done that.
We're browncoats, I mean... to say that we're a bit fanatical and have strange tastes is to commit an extreme of verbal redundancy.
-F
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