Quick! Everbody go out and start your cars,,,
POSTED BY: Hero
UPDATED: Monday, March 3, 2025 17:27
VIEWED: 12359
PAGE 7 of 10
Quote:Yes AU, this is very apt indeed.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
even thicker
Not the ice though, I mean....
Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
*Declares Barrel-Fish an Endangered Species and confiscates Chrisisall's shotgun*
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:No stairway; access denied....
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
*Declares Barrel-Fish an Endangered Species and confiscates Chrisisall's shotgun*
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
*Declares Barrel-Fish an Endangered Species and confiscates Chrisisall's shotgun*
Dang... barrel-fish is good eatin', too. Tastes like chicken-hawk. ;)
M
"Me want Kill-Dozer!!"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Seems like those that "study it for a living" might just be perpetuating their own jobs like good beaurocrates do.
Like the generals are doing in Iraq - keeping it going forever so they have kewl new toys to play with, right?
M
"Me want Kill-Dozer!!"
They probably love Kill-Dozers too.
Hey, man - EVERYBODY loves KillDozers. How can ya NOT? They're just so cuddly - right up until they flatten you.
M
"Me want Kill-Dozer!!"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Yes AU, this is very apt indeed.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
even thicker
Not the ice though, I mean....
I wouldn't take Auraptors word for it either, but I suspect the the senior forecaster with the Canadian Ice Service in Ottawa knows what he's talking about:
Quote:
...Asked about the Arctic ice cover, Gilles Langis, a senior forecaster with the Canadian Ice Service in Ottawa, told the Post the Arctic winter had been so severe, the ice has not only recovered but was actually 10 to 20 cm thicker in many places than the same time last year...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/02/26/eaic
e126.xml
-----------------
Blogs Away! ---> www.fblblog.com
"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Okay guys I gotta say that the personal attacks probably are a bit much for this. I mean I am really glad I hijacked this post into a completely inane conversation, but seriously let's be somewhat civilized.
JewelStaiteFan, actually the mirror idea has been proposed as a possible solution, however the raw materials needed to deflect enough sun would be enormous and it would be far more costly then just changing our habits now. Also the planets are actually slowly expanding outwards not inwards, a perfect example of this being the moon which gets incrementally further away from us. It is the spinning motion that causes this effect.
When there are no heroes where will we turn?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:AND from the same article:
Originally posted by Razza:
...Asked about the Arctic ice cover, Gilles Langis, a senior forecaster with the Canadian Ice Service in Ottawa, told the Post the Arctic winter had been so severe, the ice has not only recovered but was actually 10 to 20 cm thicker in many places than the same time last year...
Quote:
Other figures from the NCDC, however, show that during January 2008, Europe, northern Asia and most of Australia experienced above average temperatures. According to the Bureau of Meteorology (BoM), temperatures were 3-4°C (5-7°F) above average across large areas of Western and Central Australia and as a whole, the country had its warmest January on record.
Sea surface temperatures were also warmer than average in the Atlantic, Indian, and the northwestern Pacific oceans.
Here, educate yourselves:
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/01/03/arctic.ice/index.html
Quote:
But -- like the Arctic ice itself -- military secrecy seems to be thawing. About a year ago, Rothrock convinced Navy brass that measurements taken in the 1950s could be helpful in figuring out whether the data from the '90s was statistically significant. Armed with a pile of new numbers, Rothrock guessed that they might show that the polar cap had shrunk perhaps 18-20 inches over the past half century.
He was wrong. The actual shrinkage left him astonished.
On average, the University of Washington team found that ice had thinned by four feet (1.3 meters) -- a 40 percent decrease since 1953. The "trend" of the 1990s seemed to be an indisputable fact.
It ain't as simple as one season's temps, folks.
A looming cold spell is all part of Global Warming (or Global Climate Change, as we should say...).
Kneel before Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by avengingwatcher:
As for the middle ground, conservatives will always disagree with any environmental policy because they don't think they should have to change their lifestyle so others can live.
well in principle, everyone should have the freedom and right to live as they see fit, whether it be wasteful or not. if this is an issue of conservation, then to remain free we have to accept that only the individual can change his/her behavior. certainly every 'right' necessitates equal responsibility, to be good stewards and so on.. well these are moral and ethical issues, are they not? these kind of changes can only take place inwardly and self consciously.. clearly not the role of an external body or government. think of this in a personal context; people do not change well forcefully
also, is CO2 a pollutant, despite its role in natural cycles? go a step beyond manufacturing and personal emmissions, why not make the case that a 'culling' of the population is necessary for survival? i only bring this up as an extreme, because ive heard this scenario before,
Quote:
There was even a study that showed people who drive SUV's are selfish and insecure.
come on, thats a stereotype.. besides merely pointing that out comes off very superficially
Quote:
Mason, I completely disagree with government interfering in most cases, but seriously when the organizations that are too big for people to fight alone are in play, that is where the government needs to speak in collective protection of people.
mostly, the government/corporate relationships and subsidies are what cause these problems, especially with healthcare. the problem is too much government interference in the market. your acknowledging that the 'progressive' solution is to expand government, and give it MORE control. itll only make it worse! the corporations are less the enemy, we can deny their services, and compete if we so choose... but the government gets everybody
Quote:
So yes I am definitely liberal on a majority of things, but really who gives anyone the right to destroy someone else's right to a clean planet? I do what I can to treat the planet right and it is less costly than if I didn't so either way, just being environmentally sound hurts no one and actually helps in most cases.
youre right in that the government should protect property rights; maybe we should debate, and settle whether emitting excessive CO2 is a crime first, before we try and determine the constitutions stance on the issue. i suspect there is a lot of property rights violating going on, that some simple enforcement of the law might correct. i think we should consider these options, before taking on the task of global social engineering
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Anti,
I really have come to respect your usually very thought provoking rebuttals. It's nice to hear we can have reasonable debates across the aisle. The study I was referring to was actually done by the auto industry as a marketing tool to see how best to sell. These studies are statistically very scary in how accurate they are over a broad spectrum of people (I do advertising in my job) and much of marketing is done in this way because stereotyping people is very accurate, stereotyping a person is where it becomes ethically wrong.
Well the problem with saying people have the right to live as they want is that if someone else is pollutes the environment, they don't give you the right to your freedom. I completely agree with freedom so long as it does not affect another persons freedom, i.e. I don't eat meat and would like for everyone to stop, but it is legal and while I would like for people to stop it does not infringe upon my freedoms to not eat them or protect them if they are on my property, just as you owning a gun and shooting it on your own property is none of my business. However if you start taking potshots at the creatures on my property expressly knowing that it is against my wishes then you affect my personal freedom to live as I wish to. If it were a simple matter of you stay over there and I'll stay over here I would agree, but environmental issues affect a global population, therefore protecting everyone's right to live as they choose becomes and issue of limiting an individuals right to affect another persons, unless of course you resort to violence which I'd really rather not have to do.
As for the government, I think it should be paired down to health care, defense, education (giving people access to it not controlling what is taught with the exception that religion could only be taught in public schools as an elective, i.e. not forced) The courts would handle rights and new federal laws would be directly put forth by the citizens. with a 3/5 majority vote needed to pass.
I really have got a whole other system planned which would be far less complicated and hopefully address all the issues.
As far as government interference, I never hear enough complaints about the give aways to major corporations and too many about giving people health care. A very simple solution would be to give basic, preventative and emergency health care to all citizens, with elective and non-universal i.e. knee surgeries, broken bones would be covered by the insurance company for a very nominal fee, that way if you have an illness you are covered, or if you break a bone you can get it taken care of but it would cost money, but would not include the doctor's fees. etc...this really gets lengthy but is far less complicated than the current medical situation.
The major problem with the correction of violations is that under the Bush administration he has given free pass to corporations to pollute , abuse workers and ignore safety standards(especially in the mining industry) and otherwise run roughshod over the little guy. I completely think that the corporate government needs to be taken back and given to the people and I think the majority of us could hammer out our own compromise that everyone could work with. Personally I think the major problem is that car companies have refused and hidden their ability to make electric/hybrid vehicles that would provide the same off-roading,rebel rousing fun that most people are afraid of losing. I am not against SUV's for anything other than safety and emissions reasons.
Defining excessive emissions is kind of pointless, we really just need to get away from hydro-carbons as a fuel source, it's obviously possible since car manufacturers are now miraculously producing the vehicles they said they couldn't now that it is profitable, but most people can't afford the better vehicles. It's really just a big racket, but we all knew that.
When there are no heroes where will we turn?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME