river's limits
POSTED BY: wytchcroft
UPDATED: Monday, April 20, 2009 07:10
VIEWED: 20429
PAGE 5 of 7
Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
You can't change or disavow canon because it doesn't fit with your romanticized version of these characters. And you can't insist that River has a crush on Mal because you wish it so anymore than you can make her all better and pretend that no one screwed with the poor girl's brain. There are no canon bases for it; it truly belongs in Fan fiction.
This totally needed to be re-posted. I couldn't agree more.
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Guess I'm writing something with a little bit of the real to it, if it's getting under folk's skin...
I don't think I read your stuff, so don't take this as an attack.
Your comment above, makes me think just the opposite.
Stuf that tends to get under people's skin is usually stuff that is so unbelievable that it must be commented on.
It doesn't just have to involve a pairing, it can involve something as simple as someone's speech pattern. If someone has Simon or Inara talking like Kaylee or acting like Jayne, that would be a completely unbelievable turnaround for their character.
For something to be believable, to go against what was established in the series/film it takes time. Sure, I could believe that Simon or Inara might say 'ain't' in the future - but it would be gradual. It wouldn't happen overnight.
Same thing goes for non-cannon relationships (or mary-sue ones). Most authors don't take the time to make a pairing believable - and thus take the character OUT of their established cannon characterization - and ruin the believability.
But - some just want to read about a certain thing and don't care about believability.
To each their own.
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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Quote:I did, but don't be handing off this complement to me! Many of my criticisms of your Broken Wings River got a "thank you very much" and then you kept it your way LOL!
Originally posted by Leiasky:
Aww, you're sweet! Mal4Prez kicked my ass when beta'ing that story
Which is fine with me. That's what criticism is about, right? I bring up an issue and you can think about it and choose as you like. Even if my comments aren't used, I may have served to help you solidify your own reasons for writing River as you did. That's the important thing.
And clearly it worked!
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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>That's what criticism is about, right? I bring up an issue and you can think about it and choose as you like. Even if my comments aren't used, I may have served to help you solidify your own reasons for writing River as you did. That's the important thing.
That's a great point! Because even if you don't take someone's suggestion or criticism and change what you're writing at that moment, it does tend to stick with you, nag at you, make you think of other things that could benefit the story down the line.
It really is an amazing help to have a good beta!
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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Now, I don't have a beta, which may explain a lot. I am also known for a certain stubborness to my character, and I've never been known for my ability to meekly tolerate criticism. Guess that's why I like Mal and co.
But the deal here is that everybody sees the characters through their own personal filter. And it's very difficult to convey the nuances of that through quickly typed responses. It can be done through an author's work, but that means reading the whole thing before engaging in debate. (Which is why I rarely comment on other folks' work or perceptions, and come over self-centred in my responses. I don't presume to know how someone one else thinks.)
Trying to write an ensemble of characters, and keeping all of them true to their own voices and internal logic is not an easy task. There has to be a clear idea of each individual, and then you have to work out the possible interactions. Some authors find some of the characters easier to write than others. Keeping yourself out of the characters and letting them find their own voice, and to grow out of the foundations that we were given by the series, is key.
I wish all other writers well in their own personal understanding of the 'verse.
SpaceAnJL
Does Not Play Well With Others
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It's been said by others in this thread more eloquent than me but yeah, I think the main thing is to focus on River the person before River the killer-woman. That's a very Whedon thing to do, after all. His character's superpowers are rarely the focus of the story. It's how they deal with their real lives that interests him. Just look at Buffy. At it's heart, that show is about surviving high school and trying to figure out how to be an adult, not about vampires and destinies.
I think there's a huge amount of potential River storylines. Just think of all the issues the normal process of growing up are going to bring for her? She's a teenager, and in the wake of Serenity she appears to be reaching some kind of peace. To me, that means she'll want to start the things all teens do - dating, trying to be more independent, figuring out what she wants to do with the rest of her life.
Now imagine how the rest of the crew will react to those changes. Just imagine Mal's reaction when River brings her first boyfriend on board! Or how difficult it'll be for Simon, who has risked his life for his sister over and over again, to let her make her own choices. Won't it be much easier for him to convince himself that she's still not well enough to cope with the 'verse than it will to let her go?
And then finally you add River's powers to the mix. How do you deal with people, especially someone you're attracted to, when you can see into their mind? How does a person who can literally snap other people in half cope with being seen by strangers as a vulnerable little girl, and a sick one at that? There's acres of potential with River, and I really can't wait to see what people come up with!
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Hah, I was waiting for that line from Shepard to come up.
Other then that I've got nothing to say; I can't write and was just wondering how people who did tried to tackle issues like this.
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I'm in agreement, you need to show all sieds of River to show the compleat person but the is one thing that needs to be covered. In the novelization, she spends a large amount of time dealing with boredom. This is definately not unusual for a person of hyper intelegance but it can lead to problens. If she's in an adventure setting, she could indulge in dangerous or reckless behaviour to alleviate that boredom. That could be a subplot, set against her loyalty to the crew, which is the only real family she has.
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Quote:
Originally posted by moondog:
I'm in agreement, you need to show all sieds of River to show the compleat person but the is one thing that needs to be covered. In the novelization, she spends a large amount of time dealing with boredom. This is definately not unusual for a person of hyper intelegance but it can lead to problens. If she's in an adventure setting, she could indulge in dangerous or reckless behaviour to alleviate that boredom. That could be a subplot, set against her loyalty to the crew, which is the only real family she has.
If you buy into the novelisations version of River - which I don't.
... but i do enjoy reading different fan fic writers approaches to River, there are few hard and fast rules or limitations.. if you can pull it off - go for it. :)
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I have not read the novel. Boredom is a common ailment of the high IQ person, and River is in a physically confined location, albeit moving. However, the Cortex can provide her with unlimited potential, and she can also dance. Look at how much time we spend on the interwebby thing that algore invented here - surely River's boredom would be partially aleviated.
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