Reavers and Shan-Yu – A Jersey Browncoat says “Hello.”

POSTED BY: JerseyBrowncoat
UPDATED: Friday, April 30, 2004 10:07
VIEWED: 5614
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SOPRANOSBROWNCOAT

Wednesday, April 28, 2004 9:04 PM

Hey all, first time posting on this board. I'm one of Jersey Browncoat's converts, also hailing from our weird state, and just thought I'd throw my two cents in on the whole Reavers thing. I was reading one of Garth Ennis' "War Stories" comics the other night from about a year or two ago. It was titled "The Reivers" (note the spelling.) The story focused on a British platoon who made guerilla-style attacks against the German Afrika Korps; the title came from the main character, who was of Scottish descent, mentions a Scottish tribe known as the Reivers, who pillaged the English-Scottish border for centuries until England and Scotland became one and the border no longer existed. According to the comic, most of the Reivers settled down, but some went to the Americas and may have participated in the slaughter of American Indians. (I don't know if any of this is historically accurate, I'm just going by what the issue said.) If Joss Whedon came across this in his research, perhaps "Firefly's" Reavers are meant to be the last remnant of an ancient conflict that no longer exists, and are a problem for everyone, everywhere, but without a specific homebase. So they may very well be what's left of Shan Yu's army.

LIZ

Wednesday, April 28, 2004 9:17 PM

try searching "Xian Yu"

MANTHEYCALLJAYNE

Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:53 AM

Hi all, first time/long time.
From the other thread posted on this forum about Shan Yu, it seems that "shan yu" is a Hunnic title for chieftains, transliterated into Chinese. There appears to be outside support for this, including even the mythical Secret History of the Mongols, according to the following link:

http://dragonfly.cox.miami.edu/Tian/hun.html

Anyway, it seems highly unlikely that Shan Yu is an actual historical figure, mainly because there are no volcanoes in China. There may be a few in Japan (Mt. Fuji being a dormant example), but Shan Yu is a decidedly un-Japanese name. My guess is the writers wanted to make up some "ancient Chinese text" about torture, but were unable to find any that suited their purpose, so they just made it up. I doubt much historical research went into this show.

LIZ

Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:26 PM

so, i would first like to apologize for my abrupt comment yesterday -- i was on my way out the door but had found some info on the "real" Shan Yu when i google searched "Xian Yu." "Chan Yu" is good too. i found a couple things, but nothing that connects the Xian Yu and torture:
http://www.rekihaku.ac.jp/e-rekihaku/119/

and i found this quote "...202 BC, right before the feudal overlord Xian Yu commits suicide while bidding farewell to his concubine, surrounded by his soldiers gauntly singing their anthem." on this website: http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?5/45666
but it's a passing reference and i haven't found any other info.

for more info on historical reivers, i found these sites helpful:
http://www.nwlink.com/~scotlass/border.htm

http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctbew/history/reiver.htm

http://www.keystothepast.info/durhamcc/K2P.nsf/K2PGlossary?readform&GL
OSSARY=Reivers

... as you can see i much prefer presenting primary sources rather than reading and spitting out my chewed up versions.

I kinda like the idea, cinematically, of a society of Reavers... a group of people who have read the "ancient teachings of Shan Yu" and have chosen to create a society that bases itself in torture and finding the true self.
then again i could just be sick and twisted. this is entirely possible.

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Friday, April 30, 2004 3:02 AM

I don't think reavers have much interest in "meeting the man" i think they are just interested in MEATing the man.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Here's to Jayne, the box dropping man-ape-gone-wrong-thing"
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

WYDRAZ

Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 AM

Can't say as I understand those that have posted that there is little or no connection between Xian Yu and the Reavers. Violence and Torture. Seems connection enough for me.

VETERAN

Friday, April 30, 2004 4:13 AM

Good point Wydraz, but there's not much information to say that the connection goes beyond the violence and torture either. It's like asking if there is a conenction to Sun Tzu (the Art of War) and Deacon from Waterworld?

I doubt Joss intended the two to be related, but who knows maybe one day we'll get to ask him.

FLAMETREE

Friday, April 30, 2004 10:07 AM

Hello,

This is a very interesting discussion.

For whats its worth I think J Weardon is a fan of Dr Who.

Remember the story "Talons of Weng Chiang". This had a mythical general/ dictator with a chinese name whatever. He was notorious for his cruetly. I think Joss remember this and just slipped in a similar idea when he wanted interesting dialogue for the relevant episode.

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