Who is for Ron Paul and Why?

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Friday, February 8, 2008 16:08
VIEWED: 6511
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MOLOTOV

Thursday, February 7, 2008 1:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:
Quote:
Originally posted by Molotov:
Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:

I've never really understood this, so many anarchists seem to think that the key to making changes in society is to be a mild annoyance, in my experience being a mild annoyance merely makes people want to ignore you rather then listen to your opinions.

You mean as in "VOTE RON PAUL 2008!!!11" spammed on any youtube video, news story comments, or just the internet in general?

Actually, yes. But the more egregious examples are for instance your planned attempt to shut down the RNC, what will that accomplish? Nothing. Even if you manage to shut it down all you've done is deprived the Republicans of a night of mutual masturbation over how great they are, the party will still make the same decisions they would have made otherwise. The most you will do is mildly annoy the would-be attendees, get some cops some overtime pay and probably end up with a few thousand dollars worth of property destruction and a bunch of people spending the night in jail. You will not convince anyone of the value of your opinion and in fact will likely alienate the people whose support you need to see your goals realized.

As a Minnesotan, this protest is personal, we don't want them coming here, and we are protesting their ignorance to our requests on our own land.
Symbolism is part of it, but a small one.
Some of the largest efforts have been in talking with our communities, so we can respect them while fighting for them. As for why you haven't heard of those efforts, well, the media would never let you know we live along side law abiding citizens on a daily basis. Just know that locally we are supported in this action. Beyond that, our hopes are that we can protect our radical institutions and diverse neighborhoods, from the corporate gentrification and relocation that has been occurring recently.
There are real tactile goals attached to this protest, shutting it down is not the only one we have.

Quote:
Of course not, but the protests are what make the news and the protests are the most likely part to affect me and most of the population.

I wish I could say that the only thing that affects me is what makes the news, then the only thing I'd have to worry about is heath ledger dying. However, if you truly believe that this protest is meaningless, and anarchists are an annoyance and not a legitimate counter point, you have nothing to worry about.
Btw, big ups to the double speak in your posts.

Quote:

Shut things down to mildly annoy people and alienate them from your point of view you mean.

No, I meant exactly what I said. Do not try to mix my words to say what you want. Trivializing my thoughts only to fire back a completely opposite and neophyte point of view is a cheap tactic, and maintains the standing that you're here to dominate discussion, not participate.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, February 7, 2008 5:07 AM

Oh God.....

I never watch the news when I'm off of work so I have no clue what happens. It's like a mini-vacation every week from your people's world.

I wake up tonight to go to work, and I can't find my car. I literally cannot find it. Is it stolen? No. It's buried in 16 inches of snow. 16 INCHES OF SNOW!!! So... I was a little late for work.

I can say from experience that global warming is bullshit. I'm going to use my A/C constantly this summer to do my part warming the planet.

And where the hell did McCain come from? Great. Just freakin' great. Globalist McCain vs Osamabama for 2008. Why don't we just give the country to China and Mexico now and get it over with?

I'm just going to move into my underground bunker. See you all in 50 years.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, February 7, 2008 5:25 AM

Well, ya got heart kid, I'll give ya that...

Although you might be soon wishing you had taken Kittens advice, for we play rough here in RWED, although your Anarchic heart will jump for joy at the advisement that this board is almost wholly unmoderated - that does mean you're gonna catch the business end of a flamethrower if you haven't thought it through before posting, heh.

I might not wholly agree with Ron's positions on free trade, but I do know that if you remove corporate welfare, subsidies and gov-protection for exploitive monopolies, that'd be a start...

And if Ron's policy is to keep the Gov OUT of a Corp-Workers brawl, then it's down to the IWW to put the squeeze on those bastards, isn't it ?

The only reason Unions never got a square deal from the corpies was intervention by the Gov whenever the corpies were losing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_strikes

In spite of the revisionist-deletionist jerks trying to make it dissappear, using this list for research will show you that historically, every time Unionists had the edge, the Gov came down with both boots - and if Ron takes a hands-off policy on Corps that are not critical to our infrastructure, which I suspect he might, that's the go signal, and they'll never know what hit em till our demands are on the table.

While I am not in favor of direct action protests, the idea of begging permission to protest in some "free speech zone" five miles away in the basement of a parking garage is ludicrous to the whole concept - and if when enforcing your own right to free speech and assembly you are attacked by jackboots of the state, I would say you've every right to stand and deliver, although I would draw the line at deliberate property damage, if at all possible.

I also will state that playing hardball on that field DOES work, it worked in Seattle and sent a very clear message to the WTO that they and their ruinous operations were unwanted in that town.

Conversely, attempts to play "nice" in Florida were met with MORE violence, initiated without question by the state, buried in the media, and completely failed in that objective.

So I figure if you're gonna get your ass kicked, spend a night in jail with a concussion and get slapped with a fine EITHER WAY - you might well consider not just curling into a ball and giving up when your peaceful protest is stomped on by the stormtroopers.

The key to a solid protest is not harming or annoying, when possible, the ordinary citizens trying to go about their biz, which blocking traffic and senseless destruction often do - and yes I know they plant folks to provoke it, but make sure your folks have the discipline not to fall for that shit.

And above all, document everything, cameras galore, so that when the jackboots overstep themselves, and when they lie their ass off in court later, you have a record, and place it in the hands of deniable, anonymous folk with enough legal protection to stall off attempts to seize and destroy it - don't count on any journalistic protection, this is an administration who's thrown mainstream journalists in prison for not playing ball, they wont have any mercy on you.

If you can find any with any guts, you might try convincing a mainstream journalist or stringer for them to accompany you - it will help offset the usual "terror-symp-traitors who only want to destroy" bullshit that you KNOW you'll hear from the other sides pet media the instant they spot you.

If yer gonna do it, do it right, is all.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

MOLOTOV

Thursday, February 7, 2008 5:54 AM

Yeah, I was in Miami for the FTAA(an utter failure), and I was at the WTO in Cancun just prior to it. 2003 was a year that taught us a lot about what works and what doesn't.
I may be a kid to some(I'm 24, and I probably AM younger than most here), however I've had my fair share of summit hopping experience all over the globe.
I've worked with liberal groups, social groups, local groups, and the international radical community.
However, we know that the RNC will not be a peaceful protest.
The city's police have already released a statement saying they are committed to a successful convention, an are aiming to shut down any legitimate protest attempts, Minnesota knows this, and that is why we have had such a warm response from the local communities.
My tip for anyone that wants to protest is to respect the different zones of the protest.
There are no risk zones, probably risk zones, and guaranteed risk zones. Be aware of when they change, and if you realize that you are in the wrong zone, say something, and someone will help you link up with the blocs you are comfortable with.
Thanks for the tips with the media, unfortuneately outside of the indymedia, most profit run media will be embedded with the police. If you would like to see an example of how that changes coverage, google video an indymedia video called 'the miami model.'
While independent journalists are encouraged to come stand on our sides of the barricades, most are unaware of the risk it entails. As far as the police are concerned, if you're not embedded with the police, you might as well be another protester, ripe for the beating.
I would be surprised if anyone from here was showing up for it, but if they are, I would be more than happy to give more information to you on how to stay safe and informed during the protest.
Thanks for your response Frem
As for the property damage thing, maybe that's something I'd discuss the philosophy behind off the boards. ;)

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, February 7, 2008 6:24 AM

Well, if you've no issue with smaller media aimed at a bi-lingual immigrant audience, I do believe I can be of some assistance on that front - and they are most certainly NOT police-friendly after what happened on May Day 2007 in California.

Some of our guys (May Day is kind of a tradition for Anarchists, find a protest and join it, kinda thing..) got caught up in it, and the police beat the living crap out of a bunch of reporters, which later got some help from my folks arranging and assisting with security contracts, so they might be amenable to sending someone to cover the protest side - I will pass the word and see.

I cannot be PMed as the email addy to this name has been dead for years - just try not to smash up uninvolved businesses, we both know the PD's plants are gonna try to make that happen, but good discipline will minimize that problem.

And while I would not identify myself directly, just look a really 'dark' black bloc lead by a huge ethnic fellow of really dark complexion who sounds like a cross between Samuel L Jackson and R Lee Ermey - that'll be Augustus, and I'll be with him... somewhere.

Also, do you have some freq-hoppers to monitor communications ?

Having that evidence, of intentional provocation and military involvement during seattle was *critical* in getting a lot of charges dropped, as we had absolute proof of agents provocateur and their actions, which could not then be blamed on us.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, February 7, 2008 9:23 AM

Moltov could be an O'Brien Frem. Watch your back.

Then again.... I've always suspected in the back of my mind that you might be as well.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

FLETCH2

Thursday, February 7, 2008 3:33 PM

You mean the Irish guy from Star Trek? Hummmm, can't really imagine Frem in a Jeffries tube.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, February 7, 2008 6:59 PM

There is that, Jack, but good advice is just that, besides, better the devil you know (and can feed disinfo) than one you can't see, right ?

The pieces for the RNC issue have been laid out for a while, all that's really left is playing the chess game - and I really don't want some wilder with a hair up his nose getting sucked into senseless destruction by police plants in the protestor ranks - that'd really piss me off, and I am not at all above dragging one of my own off for a 'nice quiet chat' somewhere out of public view if needs be.

To quote from Drake's Belisarius series.

"Every plan gets fucked up the moment the enemy arrives, that's why he's called the enemy."

A certain amount of chaos is anticipated and expected, when your dealing with Anarchists, after all, but I bow to no master in the zen art of cat-herding.

Properly done, this is a lot like akido, the more force they bring to bear, the more harm they'll do themselves in trying to use it.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

CREVANREAVER

Thursday, February 7, 2008 7:22 PM

Let me write that I'm ecstatic that that chickenhawk piece of shit Romney is out of the race. Fuck him (and his coward sons).

By the way, I'm for Dr. Paul for all the reasons Sergeantx listed. He's genuinely the only candidate in either major party truly committed to the U.S. Constitution and the values of liberty on both social and economic issues.

VINCENOIRROCKNROLLSTAR

Thursday, February 7, 2008 8:12 PM

ron paul is actually top gears the stig

what is important is to spread confusion ,not eliminate it -salvador dali

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