river's limits

POSTED BY: wytchcroft
UPDATED: Monday, April 20, 2009 07:10
VIEWED: 20429
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WYTCHCROFT

Friday, January 18, 2008 1:51 PM

River’s limits

Yes – this crops up every now and again –
(and it could be that I missed a recent post about it – if so please re-direct me!)
but I’m working on my first chapter based fic in a while and the issue of River comes back again…

do I have her kick some ass ala BDM

have unnatural combat training – Ariel

be a Reader – ala Safe

or just a child /woman growing up??

Do readers/writers have a preference?
I have tried to explore all of these sides – and show possible limitations to her superpowers (!) - she gets shot, her reading is a slow and garbled process, it puts her in danger etc,
but River is the one character I have to virtually redesign with every fic ((if that makes sense) while keeping her ‘personality’ consistent to some degree.

Anyone else struggle with that?

How do most people approach River post-BDM if they are writing more than a single fic? There may NOT be a unified answer – just interested is all.

SCHOONER

Friday, January 18, 2008 5:50 PM

Personally, I've seen too many fics where post-BDM River is an unstoppable, all-knowing killing machine. Firefly, IMHO, is not a show about superheroes, and writing River as such goes against the feel of the show, and also forces all the other characters into supporting/comic relief roles.

I tend to view post-BDM River as struggling with her abilities, both physical and psychic. She's saner, but not entirely sane by any means, and remaining lucid would probably always be a struggle. Her reader-ness carries a ton of drawbacks and can pull her from this reality at the wrong moments.

As for her ass-kicking, those reflexes are not hers, but were more or less programmed into her. In a desparate situation, she was able to intuituvely tap them. Under normal circumstances, I think she would have an unenviable situation where her muscle memory does not match her intent. If a friend taps you on the shoulder unexpectedly, and your reflexes are that of a "killer woman", your body might react in a way you do not want. It would be part of River's arc to integrate her abilities with her identity. Just my thoughts.

STEAMER

Friday, January 18, 2008 9:32 PM

Post-BDM, my view of River, as seen in fanfic, is:

There is still a girl beneath the weapon.

"Be the weapon when you gotta - but don't ever stop bein' the girl." So Kaylee tells her in a short birthday story I've yet to complete and post. One thing about 'The Sarah Connor Chronicles' that makes me a little edgy is, Summer's liable to be kicking pi-gu left and right in every episode, and that, I fear, is only going to cement many folks' view of River as an unfeeling killing machine.

But she is NOT. That's clearly not how Uncle Joss wrote her in the series, and knowing the character drive of the entire story, I don't think he means for her to spend the rest of her days leaving a trail of bodies all over the 'verse. As such, of the facets you listed, Wytchcroft - I would say she's a girl/woman growing up with some very unique, potentially deadly abilities. (Deadly not only to other people, but to herself as well in the wrong set of circumstances.) In the realm of unfeeling killing machines, shall we examine Zoe briefly? Battle-hardened as she is, it doesn't much matter to her when she has to pull the trigger, or at whom: but even she has a gentler side we got to see a little bit of, thanks to Wash. I think River's the same way.

As she grows and weathers her experiences, just like any of us she'll have to learn how to integrate them into each passing day. If she has to kick some pi-gu to survive a vestigial mode of time measurement based on solar cycles, so be it. But that is by no means the only facet of her character, and I always look forward to seeing a (non-Rayne) fanfic that shows more of her humanity. For she's as human as the rest of us, her abilities aside: she can be hurt or killed by someone with a better hand of cards, she can have feelings (in fact she can't help but have feelings no thanks to the Feds), she can grow and change and have a good long life, the rest of which she doesn't necessarily need to spend beating people up.

(O HAY SCHOONER....don't know if you saw, but I plugged some of your stories in the 'Favourite River quotes' thread. You're welcome. )

When hiding psychics
You don't need
To give Blue Hands
A nose to bleed
FIREFLY

Captain of the New England Browncoats
http://www.myspace.com/nebrowncoats

RIVERFLAN

Friday, January 18, 2008 11:01 PM

I find myself agreeing with basically everyone above me. I suppose that great minds do think alike

I disagree with people saying that she's "saner". She's still going to have the same problems- they weren't mysterously "cured" by Miranda. It's just that she has a better chance of being able to absorb all the data that's coming into her, that she might be able to make it make sense. It's not the same thing as her "insanity" going away.

And I think that she isn't going to suddenly be able to trigger herself every time she feels like it. She was able to trigger herself because of the stress over Simon dieing. But she isn't likely going to suddenly want to become a merc because she has these lethal abilities. She has a gentle personality, and is likely to use those abilities consiously only in periods of great stress. Of course, she could be triggered by subliminal messages, but other than that, I don't think she'll become one of the fighters on the crew.

And is there a way to search for a specific author's work in the Blue Sun Room? Just because I don't really have a lot of patience for wading though Rayne and other nasty crap like that, but I like to read good fanfic.

#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#

www.richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html
\~~~*~~^~~*~~~/
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

YINYANG

Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:11 AM

I concur, RiverFlan.

Quote:
Originally posted by RiverFlan:
And is there a way to search for a specific author's work in the Blue Sun Room? Just because I don't really have a lot of patience for wading though Rayne and other nasty crap like that, but I like to read good fanfic.

Plug "[the name of the author] site:fireflyfans.net" into a Google search, sans quotes, and in the first few links there should be the person's profile. Their Blue Sun Room items are listed on the bottom right of the profile page.

Or, if you can find link to their profile through FFF.NET faster (the username above one of their posts, or maybe they recently put up a blog or story), just click away. The only thing that might be annoying is if they post images and filk along with stories - unless the description they gave the item says what it is, you may have to click a few things before you find a story.

Hope that makes sense.

RIVERFLAN

Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:49 AM

Ah, thank you very much.

As you were folks

#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#

www.richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html
\~~~*~~^~~*~~~/
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

WYTCHCROFT

Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:31 AM

turned out to be an interesting and kinda reassuring thread!:) thanks!

PLATONIST

Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:36 PM

wytchcroft, you may want to refer to the Firefly Companion Vol Two, for insights into River's character, from Summer (p.192), post Miranda.

I too like what everyone else has said here (the girl/women/human persona), but I wouldn't neglect River's unfortunate altered state that leads her to behave in unpredictable ways under extreme and controlled circumstances. She is a victim of behavioral conditioning and that means she doesn't always have control. There is something wrong with her brain, it was cut into.

And because of that, she still has a lot of demons to battle and keep at bay. I really don't think it was Joss's intention to use "relationship romance" as River's avenue to
personal growth and balanced living. That's a big mistake many fic authors make with her character, post movie. Joss empowers women to grow indepentently without defining them by their relationships with men, i.e., Zoë’s service record, Kaylee's mechanical gifts, Inara's education and profession, and unfortunately River's morph sis, into the trained assassin. Except her as she is, as the crew did when rallied and came to her aide.

MAL4PREZ

Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
do I have her kick some ass ala BDM
have unnatural combat training – Ariel
be a Reader – ala Safe
or just a child /woman growing up??

Welllll, she's all of these things. Which is why she's so damned hard LOL! If you choose only one of these situations to define your River, she'll come off flat. I think the most entertaining fics are when the different facets of her personality and situation are played against each other.

As far as my own take on her, I'm finding the previous posts enlightening, especially as regards the super-River phenomenon. This thread got me thinking, and I see that I'm getting this issue in my own fic. My River is in a post-BDM-like mode (though I write in a BDMless verse) where she's fairly stable and aware of her abilities. She's ready to go and DO something dammit!

So, I love the phrase from Spiderman: with great power comes great responsibility. It's such an accepted concept for superheros, and we always stand up and cheer when the Peter Parker types step fully into their powers and go out to save the innocent and shut down the guilty.

But here's what I'm thinking - in the Firefly verse, it's not so easy. Innocent and guilty aren't cleanly separated. Our potential superhero - River - is incredibly naive, easily overwhelmed by her own emotions, and in many ways disconnected from reality. The idea that she could embrace her power and responsility... well, it kind of scares me, to be honest. It scares me as far as what she might do, but more in how it would affect her. She's not a violent person, but I don't think she knows it. Does that make sense? Um... I mean that she could end up learning about guilt and remorse, and it'll be a hard thing on her.

Yeah, so that's what I'm playing with now. Not sure if it's helpful to you Wytchcroft, but it's been helpful to me to think it out LOL!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

ASARIAN

Sunday, January 20, 2008 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by schooner:

Personally, I've seen too many fics where post-BDM River is an unstoppable, all-knowing killing machine. Firefly, IMHO, is not a show about superheroes, and writing River as such goes against the feel of the show, and also forces all the other characters into supporting/comic relief roles.

I tend to view post-BDM River as struggling with her abilities, both physical and psychic. She's saner, but not entirely sane by any means, and remaining lucid would probably always be a struggle. Her reader-ness carries a ton of drawbacks and can pull her from this reality at the wrong moments.

As for her ass-kicking, those reflexes are not hers, but were more or less programmed into her. In a desparate situation, she was able to intuituvely tap them. Under normal circumstances, I think she would have an unenviable situation where her muscle memory does not match her intent. If a friend taps you on the shoulder unexpectedly, and your reflexes are that of a "killer woman", your body might react in a way you do not want. It would be part of River's arc to integrate her abilities with her identity. Just my thoughts.

Very good post. :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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