Expanding the refined timeline
POSTED BY: jewelstaitefan
UPDATED: Thursday, December 1, 2016 06:35
VIEWED: 14114
PAGE 2 of 4
Added 2 days onto the range for TTJ. Kaylee finished surgery night of first day in Pilot, well enough to be carried to engine room on 2nd day, looking kinda wan. Mal said she was reviving fast, Doc knows his work. In early TTJ under console, and particularly in the cargo bay during winching operations, she still looks quite wan. Seems like 2 days is enough advancement for her to be this well.
If others disagree, there is lots of room in this part of the timeline.
In Pilot, Simon was very concerned River would have shock from not staying asleep for another week, so it's not too far off to conjure Simon put River to sleep for a few more days to reduce shock to her system. But more than a few days would be pushing it.
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...she looked fine to me...*bewildered look*
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Remember when Simon comes to the cargo bay, asks what she's doing? She says Oh, crime! We're doing crime.
The script said she's supposed to be shy, maybe due to Simon. When I see that, her look could be shyness, but when somebody mentioned her recuperation tiem, that look she had immediately popped into my head as a wan look, like she's not completely 100%. I could be off, let me know when you see it again. She's standing and moving OK, just the look on her face seemed different.
Regardless, because she had such a fast recovery due to Simon's doctorin skills, a couple days seems like enough for her to be back on her feet.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
In the "few hours" that Serenity goes from Training House to Haven, the Operative eradicates the mining camp. I don't see where this shows that the Operative is taking his time - contrarily, this seems to indicate he is very quick, ruthless, efficient. Not fiddling around. Thus the conclusion Beaumonde is a few hours away as well.
Define the span of the 'BDM'. :) The Operative says:
OPERATIVE
Young miss,
I need you to go to work now.
I think I may have
a long way to travel.
So, I'm thinking begin BDM to when the Operative catches up with them, at least a week. Nothing in his words indicate he will find them within a few hours. If you do not count the time between the Operative at the Institute and the heist, then things shorten dramatically, of course.
N.B. I think -- very tentatively -- that I found out at what TIME the Maidenhead scene takes place: 7:14 PM, local time. I gleaned it off the LIVE feed from the Fruity Oaty Bar commercial:
Point of interest? This could be a DATE, too: July 14th (with a time index of 02.41.26 behind it). That would bring the prop's data pad date of June 4, 2518, as date when the Operative met with Dr. Mathias, back into the picture again, as 4 weeks for between when the Operative visits the Institute and the Maidenhead scene, seems a fair plausible amount of time.
Quote:
I should have clearly stated that I was providing this summary of timeline for use among firelfyfans. I'd assumed some of the data might help fanfic writers, even if I don't get over there much. And also to better understand the interactive dynamics of various relationships among the Independants, Alliance, characters, etc. I did not intend this to be a decree or tablet of Commandments. If this is not agreed upon by most here, it has lost it's purpose. Hopefully it will be able to stand as a reference for the data we (mostly) agree upon - not that it won't have some detracters.
And I should have clearly stated that I appreciate your endless work in this area. But messing with the timeline is always hazardous. Haven't you seen enough SF for that? :) Seriously, though, I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to making such changes. And you, your own self, keep changing it, too. And that's a good thing; it's called 'refining', as you, erm, called it. :) But it also means that, like crime and politics, the situation remains largely fluid until we find truly solid evidence to the contrary.
--
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Quote:
And I should have clearly stated that I appreciate your endless work in this area. But messing with the timeline is always hazardous. Haven't you seen enough SF for that? :) Seriously, though, I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to making such changes. And you, your own self, keep changing it, too. And that's a good thing; it's called 'refining', as you, erm, called it. :) But it also means that, like crime and politics, the situation remains largely fluid until we find truly solid evidence to the contrary.
I wanted to let this comment marinate in the thread for a bit before responding.
The reason I posted these in discussion threads was to find out how many - if any - would be offended by this work, and to obtain the help of other fans who were aware of other time references I missed, and cull other data from them, including conflicts between canon data. It was clear that some items did not fit in any canon timeline, like the found data prop regarding River DoB, etc. and Mal's 49 years of age.
These discussions have been helpful, and I did not consider the proposed timeline to be set in stone while these conflicts were being discussed. Currently, it appears that the above posted timeline is very much in the most consistent state among and concurring with all available canon data. Not that some people will not have some various disputes with it, but unless Joss (or Tim) specifies differently, it seems to resolve most of the percieved discontinuities in available data.
It has been changed and altered solely in response to legitimate data mentioned in these threads. I do not expect to alter it upon whims, but will if other data is revealed and is credible. I feel this is the most credible timeline available, until canon sources specify otherwise.
The exeption so far still standing is the vague time of Jayne's joining the crew.
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I did not make a clear breakdown of the dates of the Battle of Serenity Valley. There seems some confusion or unclear references to the various stages of it.
Apparently:
It lasted 7 weeks.
For 5 weeks the Independent High Command supported the troops.
The last 2 weeks were after the cease fire but before the formal end of hostilities.
Not sure if the end of hostilities of BoSV was the same end of hostilites of the entire war (Unification Day), or if U-Day was slightly after the negoitiated surrender of Serenity Valley.
So, did BoSV start 7 weeks before the date celebrated as U-Day?
Was the scene in the beginning of the Pilot 5 weeks into BoSV and 2 weeks before the end of Hostilities?
What do you folks think? or does it not really matter?
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Not sure if the end of hostilities of BoSV was the same end of hostilites of the entire war (Unification Day), or if U-Day was slightly after the negoitiated surrender of Serenity Valley.
In Bushwhacked, Harken says, "Some say after Serenity, the Browncoats were through. That the war really ended in that valley." His "really ended" clearly suggest the war ended a short time after the Battle of Serenity Valley was lost. So, I'd say U-Day was slightly after the negoitiated surrender of Serenity. Likely no more than two weeks. Probably even less.
Quote:
So, did BoSV start 7 weeks before the date celebrated as U-Day?
Was the scene in the beginning of the Pilot 5 weeks into BoSV and 2 weeks before the end of Hostilities?
What do you folks think? or does it not really matter?
The start/end of the Battle of Serenity Valley certainly matters. The Operative's data pad (deleted scenes, BDM) clearly reads: "May 2511 on Hera." So, where you're getting "Late July 2511" from is unclear to me; save to have it support your notion that The Train Job took place "Approx 12-17 August 2511". And, of course, River's escape and birthdate, which kinda have to be near august/december 2500, so that, come the Train Job, River is seventeen.
Since almost every date, directly or indirectly, is calculated back from the start/end of the Battle of Serenity Valley, I'd say that date materially impacts the entire timeline.
N.B. not saying your "Late July 2511" is wrong, btw. Just sayin' that date probably is one of the most important ones.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Remember when Simon comes to the cargo bay, asks what she's doing? She says Oh, crime! We're doing crime.
The script said she's supposed to be shy, maybe due to Simon. When I see that, her look could be shyness, but when somebody mentioned her recuperation tiem, that look she had immediately popped into my head as a wan look, like she's not completely 100%. I could be off, let me know when you see it again. She's standing and moving OK, just the look on her face seemed different.
Regardless, because she had such a fast recovery due to Simon's doctorin skills, a couple days seems like enough for her to be back on her feet.
In instances like this, I feel I have to take on the sad duty of reminding everyone that we are talking about a television show; sometimes real life crowds in, and things are not always 100% internally consistent. Whether TJ takes place 10 years or 3 seconds after the Pilot, you are not going to see any recovery time in Kaylee because the Pilot wasn't going to be aired before TJ, and Joss and Tim knew that when they were writing it. You can't show someone recovering from a wound the audience didn't know she had received, and you don't bog down the show explaining these events in which she was supposed to have received it. That just isn't how things are done.
I think JSF is doing great work here, and she has asked for our feedback throughout. We need to decide, as a community of Browncoats, are we interested in justifying EVERYTHING, even that which cannot be justified, akin to some Trek fans' endless vain attempts to retrofit early star dates into something that makes sense. If so, then by all means we should consider Kaylee's spurious recovery time. (I think you know my opinion of the above based on my greater-than-usual snarkiness, but if I'm in the minority in that belief, that's fine.) On the other hand, if we want to document as much internal consistency as possible without lying to ourselves about reality, then we can say "O.K., we can't use Kaylee's recovery time from her wound as evidence because we know the real-life forces that drove that, so let's rule that out as a solid fact, able to neither corroborate nor condemn any theory of the timeline, and rely on something less affected by external influence."
We could also deepen the Joss worship and assume that he plans for those little details within the fiction even when real life throws him a curve. I'm not sure ANY writers are that good, to say nothing of the fact that writing is an organic process, so you don't know everything ahead of time when you put pen to paper. ("Writing is like driving a car at night. You can only see as far as your headlights, but you can make the whole trip that way." -Unknown) Even if we let ourselves believe that he is that discerning in everything he writes, considering that they only had something like 2 days to write TJ, I think we could give him some slack in this case.
IMHO, better a 98% internally consistent story based on truth and fact than a 100% internally consistent story based on forced retro-fitting of facts.
"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book
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Regarding the forced retro-fitting of facts, the same problems occur with the final sequence of Heart of Gold, Objects in Space, Trash, Message being changed to Trash, Message, HoG, OiS. Joss said the reason was because he thought OiS went out on a better "summary" note. Nowever, this is now considered canon.
Trying to forcibly retro-fit these episodes in a different order would be a good example of what you say. Fortunately, these episodes are not overburdened with conflicting time references. Therefore the timeline can be worked out either way, so I didn't dwell on them in this timeline. The line from Mal in Trash about OMR being "half year back" does work out better in the originally filmed order.
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Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Not sure if the end of hostilities of BoSV was the same end of hostilites of the entire war (Unification Day), or if U-Day was slightly after the negoitiated surrender of Serenity Valley.
In Bushwhacked, Harken says, "Some say after Serenity, the Browncoats were through. That the war really ended in that valley." His "really ended" clearly suggest the war ended a short time after the Battle of Serenity Valley was lost. So, I'd say U-Day was slightly after the negoitiated surrender of Serenity. Likely no more than two weeks. Probably even less.Quote:
So, did BoSV start 7 weeks before the date celebrated as U-Day?
Was the scene in the beginning of the Pilot 5 weeks into BoSV and 2 weeks before the end of Hostilities?
What do you folks think? or does it not really matter?
The start/end of the Battle of Serenity Valley certainly matters. The Operative's data pad (deleted scenes, BDM) clearly reads: "May 2511 on Hera." So, where you're getting "Late July 2511" from is unclear to me; save to have it support your notion that The Train Job took place "Approx 12-17 August 2511". And, of course, River's escape and birthdate, which kinda have to be near august/december 2500, so that, come the Train Job, River is seventeen.
Since almost every date, directly or indirectly, is calculated back from the start/end of the Battle of Serenity Valley, I'd say that date materially impacts the entire timeline.
N.B. not saying your "Late July 2511" is wrong, btw. Just sayin' that date probably is one of the most important ones.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
I seem to have missed this reference to BoSV in May 2511. I'll try to look it up and correlate.
Not sure if it is conflicting. Beginning late May and lasting 7 weeeks would end about mid-August. But if BOSV was mostly May, ending in July, it may not have been the actual end of the war (U-Day), that may have taken a few more weeks following BOSV.
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