Fair Tax

POSTED BY: Hero
UPDATED: Friday, August 29, 2025 15:17
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FLETCH2

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 12:35 AM

It works well in all countries that have a VAT. What happens is the retailer effectively pays the tax to the government -- since he in effect is the point at which the tax is charged. He knows what is exempt and what isn't, he prices all goods to show the price of the goods with the tax were applicable. So if you buy a soda or a fine whiskey the price you see is the price you pay, you have no idea if that includes tax or duty or anything else and you don't need to know because you actually just pay what it says on the label.

I am a little skeptical of the idea that this in some way makes rich people pay taxes. I'm assuming that companies will be exempt the tax or can claim it back otherwise it will be a compounded tax on industry.

Like you say some people skip income tax by making it appear they have no income. But the kind of person that can make that happen can just as easily dodge a consumption tax. All that will happen is that instead of all income going to some shell company for tax reasons the rich guy will get his shell company to buy him things and "lend" them to him. Chances are the company will be able to claim the tax back on company purchases.

BADKARMA00

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 5:38 AM

The only fair tax is a flat income tax. No exemptions, no loopholes. Period. People below the poverty level should be exempt, ( I don't know that that is at the moment or I'd use it) but there would be no such things as EIC, or any other stuff.

Everyone pays something to support the nation. period. no more fat cats living it up and paying nothing, no more taking from the rest of us to give to someone else.

Just a plain, flat tax. Easy to figure, easy to collect. Course that would mean we didn't need the IRS anymore, which is probably why we don't have it already,

Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 6:58 AM

The national sales tax is the fairest tax.

The wealthy don't have much income, so they currently pay little tax for their wealth.

High-income people currently have the greatest tax burden under income tax.

Grocery, medical expenses, primary educational expenses should not be taxed. Prepared food (restaurants), luxury items, should be taxed. Higher education, shelter (rent/mortgage) are debateable. Tax authorities can be encouraged to shift now-taxed grocery to a non-taxed status, or provide subsidy to the poor.

Taxing the usage of money will start to make revenue from the wealthy, shifting the tax burden off of the working population, encouraging consumerism and a stronger economy.

FLETCH2

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 10:35 AM

Any "Fair" tax is going to be unfair to the person that ends up paying more under it. I think we'd have to see far more information on how this breaks down to know just who that is. Hell is in the details and exemptions, "cash back" checks and other fixes will greatly change the look of the system.

GEEZER

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 2:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by badkarma00:
The only fair tax is a flat income tax. No exemptions, no loopholes. Period. People below the poverty level should be exempt, ( I don't know that that is at the moment or I'd use it) but there would be no such things as EIC, or any other stuff.

Sorry, but it's still not simple.

How do you identify who's below the poverty level? Take their word for it at point of sale? Issue a card (Then how do you verify their income to determine if they're eligible?)? What if they get the card and then get a better job? Counterfeit cards, anyone?

You'd still need employers reporting what they paid, and an organization to check on who is exempt.

How does a self-employed person prove they're making so little they're under the poverty level. Does the guy making $1.00 over the poverty level pay Fair Tax on all his purchases, and the guy $1.00 below pay none? Is that Fair?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

GEEZER

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 2:32 PM

Couple more points to consider.

States that currently collect income tax generally do so based on the Federal income reporting system, and often on information from the Federal returns. They'll either have to each require their own reporting system, or also go to consumption taxes.

A Federal consumption tax of 30%, plus existing local sales taxes, plus whatever the States decide to do, is gonna push the total up around 40%. At this point, an under-the-counter economy is gonna look awful good to many folks - barter, or off the books, or other ways to disguise transactions. So the need for an enforcement agency will still be there.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

SICKDUDE

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 6:07 PM

You make some very good points, Geezer.

One little comment to add to the thread. A lot of people here think that government and taxes are inherently susceptible to corruption. Shouldn't they hate this idea? Sales taxes are nearly invisible, unlike income tax. You put your gum down at the register, you pay your $1.30. Come the end of the year, there's no way to figure out how much tax you actually paid. If one was truly worried about keeping an eye on government taxation and spending, seems like this is the wrong direction....

"Your gratuitous jello awaits." - Dr. Helen Magnus, Sanctuary

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 7:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by badkarma00:
The only fair tax is a flat income tax. No exemptions, no loopholes.

Except of course with a flat tax the less you earn the more the tax effects you. Doesn't sound very fair to me.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

BADKARMA00

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 10:56 PM

Well, it isnt fair that Im paying for someone else to hasve children either, Citizen.

Why do I have to pay more because I'm responsible enough not to have children I'm in no financial situation to support and care for? Why must I subsidize someone else's lifestyle because of their refusal to take responsibility for their own actions?

It IS fair, because everyone pays their share, and it's a fair share. We all enjoy the benefits of living here. Everyone should pay their own way.

Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

BADKARMA00

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 10:59 PM

Geezer it is exactly that simple. I'm not refering in any way to a sales tax, but a flat income tax. Simple as that.

My point had nothing at all to do with point of sale taxes. Hence the statement INCOME tax;)

I don't like consumer based taxation, because I do consider it unfair.

Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

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