Why I now think Book was an ex-Operative

POSTED BY: asarian
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 04:23
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ASARIAN

Sunday, January 6, 2008 5:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BionicBatman:

He has Parliament codes to get him access everywhere.

He has no rank or name, but has entry to any facility with his Parliament pass. Book could be the same.

Yes. But my point was that his ID *does* list him as Operative, even if it lists nothing else.

Quote:

Now back when Book is helped out it could very well be because of his status of a priest or Shepherd.

Well, it's certainly what Book tries to pass off at Mal; but Capt'n ain't bying, either:

MAL
They let us come and they let
us go. What kind of ident card gets
us that kind of reception and send
off?

BOOK
I'm a shepherd. Folks like a man of
God.

MAL
No they don't. Men of God make
everyone feel guilty and judged.
That's not what I saw. You like to
tell me what really happened?

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

PIRATECAT

Sunday, January 6, 2008 10:48 AM

I have always thought at first he was an operative. But reading all the theories over the years maybe a fed. Comes across like a proffessional. Like a DEA or ATF agent. Maybe has done some undercover or was an appointed official like a federal district attorney. Not a local cop. Early reads people pretty good so he suspects the rev is not who he pretends to be. In the begining he says he swore to protect the G man. Book is definitely the mystery man.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

AMDOBELL

Sunday, January 6, 2008 11:50 AM

I get the feeling that Book has led a very colourful life, done a great many things in the wide 'verse that makes him both knowledgable and expert in many disciplines. Much of his past I suspect would not make comfortable reading, or confessing, especially as by the time we first meet him he seems to be seeking atonement. An inward peace between himself and God or the 'verse. Or maybe just a quiet place, a retreat from the world, to regroup and recover from some trauma or emotional extenuation caused by the work he did. Now rested, he wants to walk the world again.

I also have a sneaky suspicion that in his youth he was a follower or fan even of Shan Yu. Not because the man was so brutal but because of his philosophy, when Book made those quotes to Simon about Shan Yu in "War Stories" he did not sound disapproving or disgusted but more like someone with a professional interest in Shan Yu's thoughts and motivations much as anyone studying history might have. I also wondered at the time whether Book's staying on Serenity was in some way an echo of Shan Yu's notion of living with a man for forty years, talk to him on every subject then hold him over the volcano's edge until you meet the real man. Not that I am suggesting he would have done that to Mal but he did seem to be studying the Captain, watching and learning to read him as well as understand him. Which is why I suspect when Simon gets mad at the Captain for wanting to put the goods they took off the derelict ship in plain view for the Alliance boarding party Book is the one who stops Simon's little tirade about putting River in plain view too and tells him just to do it. Book knows his man by now, knows that whatever the Captain has in mind giving up the Tams isn't part of it.

Lots of interesting notions from everyone, really loved reading them all. The 'was he, wasn't he' an operative thoughts made me wonder whether Book was the equivalent of an operative but for the other side, the Independents. I definitely think his ID was faked and I also think his name is not Book, just the last of a long list of aliases he has adopted over his life. I think his knowledge of operatives comes not from being a former Alliance one but from studying them as his nemesis, the level of an operative being one he was most on a par with himself. I also think that if he was the equivalent of an operative or even a high ranking policeman or other official, he may not have been able to retire from such a position. His only option may have been to 'take to the cloth', ie become the ultimate non combatant.

One of the sad things about losing Book in the BDM is that so many mysteries surrounding the man will never now be explored (unless Joss does so in graphic novel form).

Ali D :~)
You can't take the sky from me...

NEWBROWNCOAT

Sunday, January 6, 2008 4:25 PM

In the Serenity pilot, Book is nearly in tears when he says "I think I'm on the wrong ship" and he is being comforted by Inara.

In Out of Gas, River says to Book who is currently reading the bible - "Don't be afraid, that what its says. But you are afraid." and Book says "yes".

The idea that someone with the strength and fearlessness to be an operative can be so completely changed as to be truly fearful when in danger and so troubled by finding himself on Serenity with outlaws, etc. Well, that just don't sit right. A high level cop, or perhaps a government interrogator, would be possible. Neither of those kinds of characters would necessarily be in conflict with Book's actions during these scenes I mentioned. Nor would the scenes mentioned in this thread like "I don't give half a hump if you are innocent or not". But an "operative" ? Can you see The Operative (from the BDM) acting like that. Just don't make no sense.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Sunday, January 6, 2008 4:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewBrownCoat:
In the Serenity pilot, Book is nearly in tears when he says "I think I'm on the wrong ship" and he is being comforted by Inara.

In Out of Gas, River says to Book who is currently reading the bible - "Don't be afraid, that what its says. But you are afraid." and Book says "yes".

The idea that someone with the strength and fearlessness to be an operative can be so completely changed as to be truly fearful when in danger and so troubled by finding himself on Serenity with outlaws, etc. Well, that just don't sit right.

I disagree. The operative in Serenity completely lost his cool and seemed genuinely terrified when the Reavers showed up. Why? He's smart enough to know that the odds of him being eaten alive and raped are effectively nil, since his ship would probably be destroyed in the ensuing battle instead of boarded. (In fact the Reavers didn't appear interested in boarding anyone at all.)

The only thing that he really had to fear was death, and he certainly did fear it. Book was likewise faced with death in Out of Gas, though it seemed more inevitable for him than the operative, and he reacted with fear.

As for Serenity, I think that if he went to the abbey to get away from his past and the first thing he did upon leaving was beat up a cop and then watch that same cop get shot I can see why an ex operative would react as he did. He's hardly leaving his past behind, his repentance could be for nothing. Think about what it feels like for someone who deeply believes in god to see their own soul slipping away. I have, and I don't see why an operative, part of a group whose members get scared frantic by a minor armada, wouldn't be deeply troubled by that.

NEWBROWNCOAT

Sunday, January 6, 2008 7:54 PM

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree The only thing I saw in The Operative when the Reaver armada showed up was frustration, not fear. His mission to eliminate the Tams was being interfered with in a way that would set him back, possibly prevent his success from ever being able to happen. He was yelling out in anger and frustration, certainly not fear. I also don't see why he should have been unnecessarily afraid for his life, not with full knowledge of the existence and use of the escape pods.

Also, to be an Operative (i.e. a "Monster") I think the idea of worrying about his sole would have been lost past him, if he had ever worried about such a thing. I strongly disagree with the concept of someone with such worries ever being accepted as an operative of the Parliament in the first place.

SHINYSEVEN2

Monday, January 7, 2008 1:24 AM

It's possible that Book turned against his past as an Operative, but was allowed to live long enough to resign because he pointed out that he wouldn't be able to do much damage holed up in an Abbey praying 24/7. Of course, once he decided to walk the world awhile, all bets might have been off...and somebody probably got into big trouble for honoring his Get Out of Jail Free card.

SHEPARDBOOKEM

Monday, January 7, 2008 6:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewBrownCoat:
In the Serenity pilot, Book is nearly in tears when he says "I think I'm on the wrong ship" and he is being comforted by Inara.

In Out of Gas, River says to Book who is currently reading the bible - "Don't be afraid, that what its says. But you are afraid." and Book says "yes".

The idea that someone with the strength and fearlessness to be an operative can be so completely changed as to be truly fearful when in danger and so troubled by finding himself on Serenity with outlaws, etc. Well, that just don't sit right. A high level cop, or perhaps a government interrogator, would be possible. Neither of those kinds of characters would necessarily be in conflict with Book's actions during these scenes I mentioned. Nor would the scenes mentioned in this thread like "I don't give half a hump if you are innocent or not". But an "operative" ? Can you see The Operative (from the BDM) acting like that. Just don't make no sense.

In the pilot, Book also asks Inara - "is this what it's like, out here?". I can't see an ex-operative ask that question - more like a retired cop, someone who'd likely spent most of thier time on one world or around just the core planets.

SCHOOLBOYSWINK

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 1:50 AM

Replying to several points from above:

In the "is this what it's like out here" line, the "out" could refer to the outside world in general, not just to the outer planets. Given the genuine nature of Book's faith, the food he brought aboard indicating true access to a garden, and the zeal with which he was telling a story about a former monastic brother, I feel strongly that Book did spend a length of time cloistered in an Abbey (i.e., whatever other secrets his past included, this part of it was not an act). If he was an Operative-type person, whether for the Alliance or Independents, when he went into that cloister he did it with the belief that the dark things in his past were motivated by certain ideals. I believe his reaction may have been less to the violence itself and more to the arbitrary nature of it, how people are forced to do all this for mere survival and not some higher ideal. Also, Book has knowledge of the existence of Reavers and so on, as well as the "net," which I don't see operating around central planets, since it is an object purely of piracy and illegal salvage to boot. So we can verify he does have knowledge of the outer planets, in spite of this line.

As for Book being a student of Shan Yu, I think this is one of those moments where we are well served to take a step back and observe the show from outside it, thinking of the conventions and needs of writing, rather than assuming that EVERYTHING said within the show fits perfectly and has a purpose within the show. The teachings of Shan Yu were something Joss wanted us to see about Niska's character, a window into the way he thinks, as well as the way he justifies himself. (Also sets up one of the show's shiniest lines: "You wanna meet the real me now!") Joss knows the vast majority of his audience however, bright as we Browncoats are , has never heard of Shan Yu, so he needs to have a few sentences of exposition. If Niska says these lines, it weakens him; for us to see him explaining his philosophy to his victims takes away from his cold brutality. The line "Are you familiar with the writings of Shan Yu?" seems much less sadistic if he then spends the next couple of minutes explaining them to the guy he is cutting on. So, Book, being the Point of View character for all things involving moral philosophy, describes it, bouncing off Simon, since he is the only other historically-minded character available. The audience at this point will accept Book's knowledge, since as a Shepherd we assume he probably has a decent grip on comparative religion and philosophy. Now, Joss is Boss, so could he have decided to bring this back up later with a tie-in to Book's past? Naturally. But since all we've got is what we've got, I think the evidence available supports the literary necessities of the scene moreso than Shepherd being a student of the torturous pyschopath himself.

Finally, a word on the fake I.D. I can see a dirty cop having one, but I think such a man would want to have an I.D. that diverted as much attention, esp. legitimate legal attention, away from him as possible, the I.D. of a nobody. An I.D. that gets you Alliance clearance, on the other hand, would be of great use to a former Independent-Operative or underground freedom fighter. So, I'm sticking with that theory. (A lot of you folks have really helped me flesh that theory out throughout this thread. Thanks a lot for that!)

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

ASARIAN

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 1:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:

The operative in Serenity completely lost his cool and seemed genuinely terrified when the Reavers showed up. Why? He's smart enough to know that the odds of him being eaten alive and raped are effectively nil, since his ship would probably be destroyed in the ensuing battle instead of boarded. (In fact the Reavers didn't appear interested in boarding anyone at all.) The only thing that he really had to fear was death, and he certainly did fear it.

Yes, of course he's afraid. Only a fool or Reaver wouldn't be. You can play it as cool and composed as you like ("You can't make me angry,") but when you're floating out there in your bitty blue ship, smack down in the middle of Reaver territory where nobody ventures, not even Alliance, and an Armada of thoroughly pissed-off Reavers suddenly pops out of a cloud, looking to pass right thru you on their way to whoever they're planning to sign up to be the banquet du jour, being scared shitless, I assure ya, is as sure as the turn of the worlds. :)

Also, as to being "so troubled by finding himself on Serenity with outlaws, etc. Well, that just don't sit right," I think it sits just fine. :) If we recall, at the end of the BDM the once overconfident Operative is now a shadow of his former self:

MAL
Like to kill you myself,
I see you again.

OPERATIVE
You won't.
There is nothing left to see.

I won't go so far as to say the Operative already fully switched teams by that time, but I reckon being a "monster" is actually easier said than done -- especially over time; and that (like once Book?) he IS at long last beginning to give half a hump.

Quote:

As for Serenity, I think that if he went to the abbey to get away from his past and the first thing he did upon leaving was beat up a cop and then watch that same cop get shot I can see why an ex operative would react as he did. He's hardly leaving his past behind, his repentance could be for nothing. Think about what it feels like for someone who deeply believes in god to see their own soul slipping away.

Indeed. And, lest we forget, Joss recently revealed a perky detail about Book's past: the preacher man has killed a person (and took his ident card?). And suddenly we can neatly fit some of the pieces of the puzzle; like, for instance, the way Book reacted in Serenity, the pilot:

BOOK
I've beaten a Lawman senseless, I've
fallen in with criminals... I watched
the captain shoot a man I swore to
protect.

This, of course, he swore on the inside. I had always chalked it off as it being a natural, general reaction for a preacher man. But seen in the light of someone who (recently) killed someone, it suddenly makes much more sense. Killing someone no doubt had a dramatic impact on him; so much so even that it was the catalyst for him to break with his former life and become a man of God. So, naturally he's now in shambles over the Captain having shot Dobson, and his indirect participation in it. He reacts in panic, almost; his new life seems to be falling apart before it good and well started even. There's still the question on how much time Book actually spent at the abbey, but at least that convo with Inara sits a lot clearer with me now.

Looking at the "I've beaten a Lawman senseless" bit, Book DOES seem to have an affinity with the law; or rather I should say, an affinity with the side of the law. Like in his little stunt of trying, yes, what? to rescue/warn Dobson? "Lawman, it's Shepherd Book." I say these reactions are at least indicative of a person who spent some time on the side of the law (and is used to seeing things from their side).

Okay, my mouth is talking too much. I might wanna see to that. :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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