Mal and slavers?

POSTED BY: slayer730
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 05:01
VIEWED: 7999
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FFFAN1

Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Forrestwolf:
Theory: Actually, Mal WAS a slave - this idea from my wife (she wants credit).

40 hands on his mother's farm, eh? What do you want to bet SHE was a slave, on a farm with slaves, and Mal was raised as a slave from birth?

Have to disagree with this theory. When Mal tells YoSafBridge about his mother, he says "Weren't nobody ran 'em [cattle] harder or smarter. 'Brand the buyer, not the cattle' she used to say..." (I'm paraphrasing slightly, but you get the gist) Sounds like the owner of the ranch, not a slave, to me.

They earned that with the sweat of their slave-trading brows.

FORRESTWOLF

Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:23 PM

That's a pretty convincing bit of dialog, I've got to say. Sounds like I'll need to rewatch that scene tonight! Ah, well. It would have been interesting if he were a slave. Still wondering what the actual story is for his animosity towards slavers...

BROWNCOAT1

Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:04 PM

Zoid wrote:

Quote:
Many people today believe (a word that gets me in no end of trouble) that the American Civil War was "The War To End Slavery". While it's true the war did finally bring an end to the most heinous chapter in our cultural history, slavery was not the issue that caused the war. "States Rights" was the focal point of the debate that led to revolution. While to a certain extent the issue of slavery was always a hot topic, Northern states held more political power due to population density (especially considering that the South had many non-voting slaves) and passed several laws that included favorable tariffs for Northern manufacturers, at the expense of Southern agriculturalists. The Southern states held to the Jeffersonian ideal, that individual states could nullify Congressional acts that were outside the federal powers specifically enumerated in the Constitution. By degrees the whole issue devolved into debate, anger and bloodshed (much like political threads on FFFn).

The Civil War officially began on April 12, 1861. The Emancipation Proclamation -- which only freed the slaves in Rebel states, not Union-occupied slaveholding states -- was decreed on January 1, 1863, nearly two years after the start of the war. All slaves were freed by Constitutional Amendment after the war in 1865. To be fair, a large faction of the States' Rights movement of the time became bellicose because they saw the hammer coming: Lincoln was going to free the slaves; Northern-controlled Congress was going to run it roughshod past any Southern opposition; and without an individual state's right to declare such legislation 'outside the Constitution's purview', Southern plantation owners were going to lose their cheap (despicably got and held) labor force.

Bravo!!!

Well said my friend, well said. It is good to see that not all buy into the history written by the victors in reference to the War of Northern Aggression.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

LIZ

Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:05 PM

i don't know... but i have to say that every time i think about young Mal and his Mom as slaves i have flashbacks to StarWars Episode 1 (phantom menace). i don't mean to...

FORRESTWOLF

Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:15 PM

AWGH!!! How frightening...Mal as Anakin...eek. OK, nevermind. He was never a slave...bad, bad, stereotyped storyline...

*runs screaming from concept of Serentiy comparison to Episode 1*

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by liz:
i don't know... but i have to say that every time i think about young Mal and his Mom as slaves i have flashbacks to StarWars Episode 1 (phantom menace). i don't mean to...

That should be sin.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Did I hear something about black market beagles? They have smallish droppings."
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

ASTRIANA

Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
BTW, I remember him telling Saffron that he grew up on a ranch, but I must've missed the reference to a specific number (40?) of ranch hands; where was that?

Here ya go:

Scene: Cargo Bay, Saffron has just expressed her desire to NOT be "wed to the large one."

YoSaffBridge: I could be useful on a ranch.
Mal: It's good work. My mama had a ranch - back on Shadow, where I'm from. Nobody ran 'em harder or smarter. (pause for breath) She used to tell me, 'Don't brand the cattle, brand the buyer, he's the one's likely to stray.'
YSB: She raised you herself?
Mal: Her an' about 40 hands. Why I had more family for a kid... Well now that IS odd...

(sometimes my memory for dialogue scares me

)

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

MIKECHANCE

Thursday, April 22, 2004 9:29 PM

Lincoln didn't have the power to free the Slaves.

The Emancipation Proclamation was something he could not legally do. The abolishment of slavery by the union through the emancipation proclamation was a demoralization tactic - and an encouragement for slaves to revolt and go on murdering rampages. Most of those that didn't go on aforementioned rampages stayed on the plantation afterwards for barely anything. Really, most slave owners treated thier slaves well, a few horrid ones just made the rest look bad. Some slave owners even went to the trouble of educating thier slaves, and giving them a chance to earn thier freedom... but you never hear about them, do you? The same way a few dumb blondes make the rest look dumb.

And frankly, I'd lean towards something along the line of alliance-backed slavers having raided the ranch when he was young.

ZOID

Friday, April 23, 2004 12:46 AM

Hey, 'coats:

Good day at work today? I hope so.

Lots of people responded to stuff I rambled on about, so I'd like to briefly (for a friggin' change) address specific questions raised.

Forrestwolf wrote:

Quote:
As for the War, I wasn't intending to get into a discussion of Northern vs. Southern intentions in the ACTUAL Civil War...

Yeah, I know you weren't going that way with it, but somebody had pointed out that maybe Joss was doing a switcheroo on the slavery issue, North-South/Alliance-Independent-wise. My point, in my very longwinded way, was that the intervening years had obscured the primary cause of the Civil War, and turned the tables politically. It's ironic that today the leading voice for States' Rights is the Republican Party, while an overwhelming majority of non-white voters identify themselves as Democrats. I'll state it as plainly as I can, in conclusion: I think the idea that JW might swap the roles of South (Independent) and North (Alliance) is very plausible; but if that is the case, it's just a matter of Art imitating Life...

Badger's - Hat (Eh? See? I got it right!) wrote:

Quote:
Ask anyone who's gotta work for nothing or close enough not to make a difference... who has few or no rights... who is stuck in a place against their will.... I think they'd call it slavery.

I wasn't trying to say there's a world of difference between the two, just a technical difference. Slavery and Ind Serv looked the same on the surface, absolutely. But slavery had no time limit, whereas Ind Serv., even if the debt kept getting increased and pushed back, had an eventual expiration date of sorts...

Apparently, indentured servants had a high 2-year incidence of mortality (they died before they got it worked off) and were treated so brutally in many cases that they ran away (like slaves did) and new laws were passed to increase their terms of indenture if they took flight. Still, I will readily agree that as bad as it sucked to be an indentured servant -- for instance your 'contract' could be sold to another Master, without regard to spouse or children that were left behind -- it was fundamentally superior to being a slave. And vast numbers of indentured servants did eventually become citizens. I just wanted to point out that being an indentured servant was not a great deal better than being a slave, in practice. ...And between 200,000 and 300,000 indentured Europeans came to America every year through about the 1830's.

Last thought on the indentured servant thing: Roman slaves usually served in a household for like five years, then were 'manumitted' or freed to become full citizens of the Empire. In today's America, how many more years will you have to work in servitude to your mortgage company, your credit card issuer and your automobile loan guarantor until you are 'freed' from your 'indentured servitude'? That's what credit is, baby, fancy advertising campaigns notwithstanding. I reckon I'll be a wage slave 'til they throw dirt in my face...

Astriana wrote:

Quote:
Mal: Her an' about 40 hands. Why I had more family for a kid...

Thanks. I didn't recall the specific number being mentioned. The only thing I'd say to characterize that statement in the conversation is that Mal is lightheartedly reminiscing about his happy childhood/adolescence on the family(?) ranch. One thing to remember about Southerners (and Mal's cultural style): we have a tendency to exaggerate to prove our points, when we're just jawing. Case in point, if I tell someone "I live at home with my wife, my two kids and about 600 dogs and cats", it shouldn't be taken literally that I have 600 dogs and cats. The intent is that I feel I've got way too many dogs and cats. If I say it with a smile, then having 600 dogs and cats is grudgingly okay with me. If I say it with a growl or a shrug of the shoulders, then having 600 dogs and cats is not okay with me, but what can I do about it? That's what I get for being marrie

FORRESTWOLF

Friday, April 23, 2004 1:55 AM

(talking around the politics, which I really really don't want to go into)

Thanks for the quote - now I really AM wondering again..."don't brand the cattle; brand the buyer" eh? Hmmm....cattle....hands...human cattle or bovine cattle.

Again, I'll accept this could be way off - and I don't claim Joss is taking any sides here in history (in fact, I'd claim he's avoiding it specifically). But slavery could be a hidden motif here, and Mal might just be an ex-slave. Might.

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