FTL?
POSTED BY: Staleek
UPDATED: Saturday, January 12, 2008 13:55
VIEWED: 8146
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I'm with you on this one Brown.
Now don't anybody missunderstand me. There's nothing I like more than to debate scientific theories, especially concerning FTL or time travel or a whole bunch of other things!
What I am saying is that Firefly definately made an attempt not to get hung up on technical definitions of theoretical systems. They do use alot of terms throughout the show like grav boot, thermal cap, etc... but they're all just plot devices I expect.
I'm not saying anybody shouldn't discuss it. But I don't think we should be discussing anything being canon 'cause, that ain't what Firefly is about. It's about the people and they're struggle. Not about grav-a-metric fields and the like. 
Again, don't get me wrong. I'm a trek fan too and while alot of people say that trek turned to technical, I say bring it on! I love that stuff. But for me personally, if I want tech I'll watch trek... if I want a good story and lots of amazing characters, I'm going Firefly!
But to toss in a bone to the discussion... from watching the movie they mention that they found a new SYSTEM, with dozens of planets and hundreds of moons. And then when you see the map of the verse that the teacher is reffering to, it's definately a solar system type environment. FTL drive would mean travel times in minutes or up to one hour, maybe a bit more, but not the hours or days that Wash usually reffers to. (yes I'm aware that nobody ever said how big the system is.)
Not to mention that engaging FTL drive inside a solar system is portrayed as a BAD idea in most sci-fi... for obvious reasons.
my two hundreths of a dollar. 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Staleek:Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Nope , no FTL...
But , there is mass-reduction via manipulation of
G-force , as Miss Kaylee refers to " re-wiring
the grav-thrust "...
So, not being a physicist in any way, shape or form, is this suggestive of the idea that the drive uses a planetary body's gravity well to propel it, at least in some way?
"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." - Thoreau
I'd say it's certainly a possiblity , if not an
outright suggestion...There's also the
possibility of using 'zero-point' energy in some
way , but that's nothing more than speculation...
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" Quiet desperation is the English way..."
--Pink Floyd
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Quote:
Originally posted by prototype7:
But to toss in a bone to the discussion... from watching the movie they mention that they found a new SYSTEM, with dozens of planets and hundreds of moons. And then when you see the map of the verse that the teacher is reffering to, it's definately a solar system type environment. FTL drive would mean travel times in minutes or up to one hour, maybe a bit more, but not the hours or days that Wash usually reffers to. (yes I'm aware that nobody ever said how big the system is.)
I agree on the predominance of evidence against the existence of FTL drives in the 'Verse. However, in "The Train Job" the Blue Hands guy clearly says:
"We didn't fly eighty-six million miles to track down a box of band-aids."
Eighty-six million miles, wow, that would take a long time without FTL (and certainly give new meaning to the phrase: keep flyin'). Even *with* FTL, at 300,000 km/s, that's a 7 minute ride (probably only something like 20 seconds at "Ludicrous speed," but still).
Since it takes the light of our sun to travel about ten minutes to earth, being a rough 180,000,000 km away from us, an Alliance Cruiser being several hours out from them, assuming they were traveling within the same solar system, would likely go at a speed -- if I got the math right, here -- of about 12,000 km/s. All depending on actual distance and how many precise hours, of course. But that seems about the right order of magnitude.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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I think an AU, or distance to our Sun, is about 149,600,000 Km, or 92,960,000 miles, takes about 8.31 minutes for light to travel, and 16 days for craft in this verse.
That makes 86 million miles about 15 days travel.
Anybody remember where that is written? 16 days to travel one Astronomical Unit? I can't find it or recall where I read it. I skimmed all through the comapanion books.
Apologies if this is already discussed, but this has bothered me:
In The Message, on St Albans Book points out that Womack is from the Silverhold Colonies, putting him 8 solar systems out of his jurisdiction.
Huh? I thought this verse was all one solar system. The Unified Planets of the Alliance include St Albans and Silverhold, so i thought they'd be in the same solar syatem - but now they're 9 solar systems apart?
I had wondered if this solar system had multiple suns - which would help heat dozens of planets and hundreds of moons, but this would still be one system, not 9 different systems, right?
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Quote:Eighty-six million miles isn't very far in astronomical terms. It's a little under one Astronomical Unit (which is the distance from the sun to a massless body prescribing a circular orbit around the sun of ~365days, not the average distance between Earth and Sun), which is 149,597,870.691km (the Earth fluctuates between 146 to 152 million Km). This lends credence to the one system theory, since the Alliance Cruiser (the Agamemnon?) is supposed to be out in the sticks, while we can be fairly sure the Bluehands came from a central planet.
"We didn't fly eighty-six million miles to track down a box of band-aids."
Eighty-six million miles, wow, that would take a long time without FTL (and certainly give new meaning to the phrase: keep flyin'). Even *with* FTL, at 300,000 km/s, that's a 7 minute ride (probably only something like 20 seconds at "Ludicrous speed," but still).
As for taking a long time without FTL, not really. If you're talking Hohmann minimum DeltaV transfers it will, probably getting on to a year of travel time, but assuming an advanced drive capable of prescribing a Brachistochrone trajectory (essentially you accelerate half way to the destination, then turn around and decelerate to make the intercept) you'd be surprised how quickly you'd get there. Assuming a constant 1g of acceleration (which given that there is anti-gravity and 'inertial-dampening' in Firefly is by no means a maximum) an advanced Fusion drive could make the trip in ~2.75 Days.
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Quote:I don't think he say's solar systems, I think he says system. Solar wouldn't make any sense anyway, there's only one solar system, and it's the system orbiting the star Sol. System could easily be the term used to discuss the moons orbiting a gas giant, or any series of moons really. Maybe there are 8 planets orbiting the local star between Silverhold and St Albans.
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
In The Message, on St Albans Book points out that Womack is from the Silverhold Colonies, putting him 8 solar systems out of his jurisdiction.
Huh? I thought this verse was all one solar system. The Unified Planets of the Alliance include St Albans and Silverhold, so i thought they'd be in the same solar syatem - but now they're 9 solar systems apart?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Apologies if this is already discussed, but this has bothered me:
In The Message, on St Albans Book points out that Womack is from the Silverhold Colonies, putting him 8 solar systems out of his jurisdiction.
Huh?
No he doesn't. He says systems, not solar systems. Now I go to school at the University of Southern Maine, which is part of the University of Maine System, which is part of the Maine educational system, which is part of the national educational system, which is based on the Earth (as you might have guessed), which is part of the Earth-moon system, which is part of the solar system.
There is no indication what Book means by System but, for obvious reasons, it probably isn't solar systems.
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Alright, I have my set lent out again, so If Book spoke "eight systems" then I have to take your word for it. However, I'm still referring to the script, which still makes a valid poijnt of conflict. My script in the Companion Vol 2 says "That puts you about eight solar systems out of your jurisdiction."
Same thing in the sript here:
http://firefly.girven.org/scripts/firefly-115.htm
So I still find it confusing, quoting 8 solar systems in alliance, when I thought there was one solar system. And I did think there could be multiple suns (at least 2) in a solar system.
I'll try to check the actual spoken line when I get my DVDs back.
If you're looking at that script, you might notice what the script says in the flashback scene where Zoe saves Tracey's bean-eating life. Script says Mal enters screaming, right after Zoe tells Tracey a lesson. Remember what words Nathan uses when screaming? I always thought that funny.
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Quote:That is very different to what appears in the episode.
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Same thing in the sript here:
http://firefly.girven.org/scripts/firefly-115.htm
Quote:Solar system isn't a generic term for all star systems, it's specific to the star System orbiting the star Sol (latin for: Sun), which is why it's the Solar System, not A Solar System. Even if he did say Solar System, it's a nonsense term because there's only one Solar System, and they've left it long behind. There also can't be multiple Suns in a Star System, because the Sun is the name of one specific star. Other Stars have different names, like Alpha Centauri, Proxima Centauri, Bernards Star etc.
So I still find it confusing, quoting 8 solar systems in alliance, when I thought there was one solar system. And I did think there could be multiple suns (at least 2) in a solar system.
Having said that, watching that scene on my own set the word System isn't mentioned, solar or otherwise. What Book actually says is "eight sectors".
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Having said that, watching that scene on my own set the word System isn't mentioned, solar or otherwise. What Book actually says is "eight sectors".
Yes, shooting scripts != canon! They are a valuable source of information, at times; especially in the area of figuring out what Joss initially had in mind for some scenes. But the aired episode is what goes, in terms of canon.
Thanks, btw, for your other contributions in this thread: it was most enlightening. :)
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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