FTL?
POSTED BY: Staleek
UPDATED: Saturday, January 12, 2008 13:55
VIEWED: 8146
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Honestly, I'm with you SigmaNunki. Joss did say they don't have it but he never said they never did. Also just because Joss said it then doesn't mean he wouldn't put it in later. Also I personaly feel if they ever had it it's either impractical now, to expensive or requires something non-present in the paticular system they are in. Some form of rare mineral that allowed them to sustain FTL drives for extended periods of time making interstellar travel possible. Which brings up something else I was wondering about. Joss mention somewhere that just because it's 500 years in the future doesn't really mean it's 500 year from now. Could be they stopped counting time in-route to their new home or if they did use FTL that would have brought up the whole reletivity angle and 50 years for them could have been thousands of years to anyone remaining on earth. So if FTL travel was used or is used that would change things in the 'verse as we know it. But like I said I'm really on the fence. Doubtful I will ever get off either since even if there are many more movies I seriously doubt Joss will use FTL or even tell enough of the story of the exodus from earth that was to let us know for sure. I do however seriously think that it's very unlikely they still have it if they ever did.
Ok that was a mess of a post but I'm dead tired so whatever.
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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein
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No FTL. The drive is explained, I don't recall where, probably the Official Companions. The speed is about 2 days per light-minute. The specific formula or explanation of the speed and limitations is written. This is of course the space speed, and when in atmo they switch to the thrusters and a different form of drive, also explained. The space speed equates to approx one light-second of distance per hour (5 light-seconds per 4 hours.) From our Earth to Sun is 16 days. (our sun's rays take 8 minutes to reach Earth).
They discovered the new verse before leaving. The terraforming took decades to accomplish, so the terraforming craft had to leave Earth decades before the colonists.
For comm, I figured some of the range limitations was for security. The security sync would need to have minimal delay to work, or else somebody could tap into the signal before the sending unit could stop the signal output. Talking to Patience and other criminal types would be done on secure comm link.
In BDM, the Operative wanted to deny a place of refuge for Serenity, from Haven to the Training House was only a few hours, and back the same, so comm wouldn't have been that far, and all the sites razed were probably the closest ones, within a few hours travel time since they escaped the Training House. The trip from Miranda to Mr Universe, as stated by River, was under 4 hours at maximum burn.
Somebody mentioned that watching delay woldn't be fun, but watching Mal and Inara squirm during delays would be entertaining, done the way of Joss, Morena, and Nathan. We've seen those cellular commercials for missed signals, and the results of - would those pre-date the release of BDM, or were they after BDM?
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
No FTL. The drive is explained, I don't recall where, probably the Official Companions.
Are you sure about that? Because, the description of one engine type does not the exclusion of everything else make. That is unless it is EXPLICITLY stated. Anything else is baseless inference.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
No FTL. The drive is explained, I don't recall where, probably the Official Companions.
Are you sure about that? Because, the description of one engine type does not the exclusion of everything else make. That is unless it is EXPLICITLY stated. Anything else is baseless inference.
----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
IIRC, the formula stated was for Maximum theoretical speed, which not all engines would likely be capable of. They stated it as being a physics reality, but I suspect from the brief reading of it that it was falsified physics, just so Joss could sound "sciency". I thought it implied that Firefly class could accomplish this max speed, or near it - creating the "firefly effect" - but that greater mass cargo ships might not be able to. Hence, one of the selling points of this ancient relic class of a ship.
The explanation was also referring to the speed of the generational ship to get to the verse, which would have predated the Firefly class.
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Quote:We're not talking about him supporting a contradiction, we're talking about him saying something doesn't exist within the universe he created, which has no evidence for existence within that universe apart from his say so. I'm just following where all the evidence leads.
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
We don't see eye to eye on this one. Joss has supported other things that have created contradictions. So, I'm not really going to be convinced by him saying something if it wasn't said in the show.
Quote:Indeed, in the real world absence of proof is not proof of absence, but we're not talking about the real world. If FTL existed in the firefly canonic universe, we would have seen it. In a constructed universe saying "we haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist" means we can say anything exists in FireFly. We didn't see wood elves either...
Just because something isn't used/wasn't seen, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Quote:So? Having no comments that refer to FTL lends credence to the no FTL position regardless of context.
Comments in the show regarding such things, in context, only refer to there own situation. Not to the 'verse as a whole.
Quote:But we'd still see them. If FTL exists, you can bet the Alliance would put it on their big bastard cruisers (which is one thing I find funny, the Cruisers are large city ships that carry smaller craft, surely a better term would be carrier?). They obviously don't, as they could have used it to prevent Serenity's escape and mount a rescue mission for the 'cry baby' ship in the pilot. If FTL existed, the one place you can be sure of it's existence, would be on one of the Alliances major military vessels.
Such drives, could simply be too expensive to afford. The crew was living hand to mouth on a piece of go-se after all.
Quote:If you want, but all the evidence points one way. The available evidence might not be conclusive (though I think it's as conclusive as you could possibly expect from a fictional universe), but all the available evidence points one way. There's evidence suggestive of a lack of FTL technology, but no evidence of it's existence.
Personally, because of the above, I'm going to consider this question still "up in the air" without an answer in sight. Just my opinion.
Quote:I vote falsified physics, since no rocket has an inherent maximum speed. They have maximum specific impulses, which dictate how much DeltaV the rocket has for a given mass ratio (percentage of propellant to non-propellant mass) but theoretically any rocket could reach high fractions of lightspeed if it could carry enough propellant.
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
They stated it as being a physics reality, but I suspect from the brief reading of it that it was falsified physics, just so Joss could sound "sciency".
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Some people just can't seem to escape the influence of Star Trek. They seem to want FTL, Aliens, etc. That's not what the Sereniverse is about. Problems are solved based on emotions and feelings instead of technology. Joss clearly wanted the 'verse to be everything that Trek isn't, so let's not go where the show wasn't intended to go. Yes, the science is shakey at times, but Trek science is not the way. JMHO....
"Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." -Mal
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Quote:
Quote:
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Just because something isn't used/wasn't seen, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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Indeed, in the real world absence of proof is not proof of absence, but we're not talking about the real world. If FTL existed in the firefly canonic universe, we would have seen it. In a constructed universe saying "we haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist" means we can say anything exists in FireFly. We didn't see wood elves either...
Still, laser weaponry was not hinted at all, until episode Trash and further in Heart of gold.
And who know what secret technology Blue Sun or The Allience is hiding.
I say it is possible.
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I don't believe that absence of proof is proof of absence. That said absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Not proof by any means, but evidence.
Is it possible, in terms of what we have been presented, that FTL drives exist in the Firefly verse? Yup. They could even be possessed by the aliens that Joss also said didn't exist in the verse.
The question is, why would you believe in it in the total lack of anything even suggesting it is true?
I know of no reason.
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Quote:Firstly directed energy weapons are shown in the opening sequence of the pilot.
Originally posted by Grotz:
Still, laser weaponry was not hinted at all, until episode Trash and further in Heart of gold.
And who know what secret technology Blue Sun or The Allience is hiding.
I say it is possible.
Secondly, so what? Your comparing laser weapons being shown, to FTL NOT being shown, it basically proves my point.
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Quote:I thought I'd reply and quote to do that thing I don't generally like doing, but feel I must because of how well you put it:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
I don't believe that absence of proof is proof of absence. That said absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Not proof by any means, but evidence.
Is it possible, in terms of what we have been presented, that FTL drives exist in the Firefly verse? Yup. They could even be possessed by the aliens that Joss also said didn't exist in the verse.
The question is, why would you believe in it in the total lack of anything even suggesting it is true?
I know of no reason.
I agree entirely and this is exactly what I was trying to say.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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