Golden Compass Controversy
POSTED BY: bluesuncompanyman
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 04:16
VIEWED: 11365
PAGE 3 of 7
I've read the books. Loved 'em! I would never have gleaned from them that their author was a "militant atheist" or any sort of atheist at all, really. Maybe a lapsed Catholic. 
The books are brimming over with spirituality, the nature of the soul, and universal consciousness--not topics beloved of your standard issue atheist. It's a very spiritual and serious series. Yes, there is an entity they call "The Authority" and it does seem to be the thing the folks in the big fascist religion worship, and yes, Lord Azrael has it in for the big lout, but the closest this gets to real world theology is Gnosticism, with "The Authority" being analogous to the Demiurge. I could go into more spoilery sort of detail, but I hope some of you will take the time to read the books yourselves. The series is really one of the best actually completed (!) fantasy series I've ever read.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Are you sure?
Originally posted by ImNotHere:
in fact all state schools are required to hold regular acts of "broadly Christian" worship
Yup.
Best I can find in a hurry:
http://www.natsoc.org.uk/schools/curriculum/worship/swbellspeech.html
Of course, in an increasingly multicultural society its almost unenforceable.
years ago, I actually got kicked out of a state C-of-E primary school (where we got marched into church once a week) - I'm tempted to invent some revisionist history in which this was due to some dramatic act of desecration, but sadly it was for rather mundane reasons.Let me conceed a few points here for the sake of balance - 1. the Church played a major role in the establishment of universal, free education. 2. The church-controlled and "faith" schools (C of E and other faiths) tend to be extremely good schools - although there's a tangled web of possible causes-and-effects involving waiting lists, neighborhood affluence and parent attitudes behind that.
Of course, when it comes to religion, the Church of England sits firmly at the moderate/tolerant/liberal end of the curve. (In the Pullman alternate universe, the Christian sects had re-unified into a single, all-powerful pseudo-Catholic theocracy).
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImNotHere:Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Are you sure?
Originally posted by ImNotHere:
in fact all state schools are required to hold regular acts of "broadly Christian" worship
Yup.
Best I can find in a hurry:
http://www.natsoc.org.uk/schools/curriculum/worship/swbellspeech.html
Of course, in an increasingly multicultural society its almost unenforceable.
Let me conceed a few points here for the sake of balance - 1. the Church played a major role in the establishment of universal, free education. 2. The church-controlled and "faith" schools (C of E and other faiths) tend to be extremely good schools - although there's a tangled web of possible causes-and-effects involving waiting lists, neighborhood affluence and parent attitudes behind that.
Of course, when it comes to religion, the Church of England sits firmly at the moderate/tolerant/liberal end of the curve. (In the Pullman alternate universe, the Christian sects had re-unified into a single, all-powerful pseudo-Catholic theocracy).
I have to agree here. I can't speak for the way it is now, but when I was at school there was no 'opting out', you had to do it and that was that.
From a 70's/80's perspective.
INFANTS: Start at about 5 years old.
Daily assembly would feature religious hymns, passages from the bible and at Xmas the nativity play, which the upper year put on and it was mandatory to play a part.
PRIMARY: 7-11 years old.
Daily assembly again with religious hymns, passages from the bible and the nativity play which the upper year would put on. Again mandatory to play a part.
HIGH SCHOOL: 12-14 years old.
Weekly assembly, hymns sung. RE (Religious Education) taught over at least one double and one single lesson per week. Concentrated solely on the bible, Jesus and God. No choice in the matter and you couldn't 'opt out' as I know someone who tried. Occasional trips to a C-of-E church where hymns and prayers were used.
UPPER SCHOOL: 15-16 years old.
RE taught as part of the mandatory school requirement. Occasional trips to a church where hymns and prayers were used.
On top of this in my area most youth groups or out of school activities were connected to one of the churchs and so you got more hymns and prayers plus the youth group put on a play each year that was a scene from the bible.
"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."
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Quote:As a modified Buddhist myself, I'd be interested in an example of extreme Buddhists...the only example I can even imagine that you might mean would be the monk that set himself on fire during the Vietnam War as a protest...Buddhists generally don't have jihads or anything...
Originally posted by MerryK:
Sure, there are extreme Christians, but there are extreme athiests, Muslims, Buddhists, what have you.
Radical Chrisisall
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Saw this movie yesterday, myself. I sense no danger here. Apparently, they boiled away most of the contreversy worth materials here. And, not withstanding that this "Magesterium" is based off of our own Middle Ages- Rennesiance era Catholic Church. The Pope really did have that much power- but not over the entire world, as the book leads us to believe happened in that multiverse. And they did (The Vatican) do the usual atrocities associated with power- Burning, pillaging, looting, murdering, eviscerating- but they did it all in the name of God, which is just ten times more worse then anything else.
Sounding familiar yet?
-Danny
and every time I play with passion I start breaking strings,
and my voice cracks when I sing from my heart
guess that's the price I've got to pay to know that I'm alive
this melody is tearing me apart
THRICE RULES!!!!!!!!!
Gott weise ich will kein Engel sein.
http://www.myspace.com/otherrandomdude
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
I'm no more worried about the golden compass than I am the passion of the christ.
Personally I'm WAY more worried about Passion of the Christ
I read the first book of the series and in The Golden Compass I didn't feel that religion was the issue, I thought it was fascism,
unless of course religion might BE fascist, but I was assuming the subtext was political, not religious, and I felt it was VERY 'sub': subtle and debatable and not likely to be militant anything, just adding a richer layered world view (like the seeming political aspects of Tolkien's trilogy)
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Embers, must I read these books?
I will if you command it.
Trusting Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Embers, must I read these books?
I will if you command it.
Trusting Chrisisall
I was not really entranced and didn't feel any great desire to read the second one...
it was a charming story but a little frustrating,
I didn't feel that attached to the characters.
So I'm definitely not commando girl, not finding them that compelling my own self.
certainly nothing like Tolkien, who I couldn't put down,
or JKR's Harry Potter where I had to immediately reread them (except the last, I'm not sure when I'll be up for rereading the last book)
or even CS Lewis which seem childish, but I did really love the children....
Maybe seeing the movie will make me want to revisit the series and read the 2nd book
(or you could tell me what you think if you do try them!)
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So...it was no Buffy season 8 then
Which I'm lurven'!
Chrisisall
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Well, I didn't mean extreme in a violent sort of way...I did meet one Buddhist whose views were very extreme, even though I didn't see him as a danger to society.
--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
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