Funny Taser Video
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 19:48
VIEWED: 4816
PAGE 4 of 6
"He can have any opinion, perception, or attitude he wants, and none of us know enough about him to judge him for it."
The one thing you do know about him is that he has that opinion, perception, or attitude. And uh, then what DO you judge people for ? The clothes they wear ?
"None of us have the right to determine his worthiness for his job or anything else."
I don't know if you were old enough or followed the Rodney King case well enough (come to LA where we'll treat you like a King !), but one of the policemen involved - Powell - was disgraced to be tagged with this: 'Powell described the scene of a domestic disturbance involving African-Americans as right out of "Gorillas in the Mist.'"
You know, maybe despite his personal gratification over watching suspects being tasered he really can do an impartial job. I rather doubt it. And I don't think Hero's superiors would be any too pleased to know that that kind of attitude exists.
In case you think I'm being too harsh - I've been told by someone I think is a credible source - ex LAPD - that the CHP is legendary for their public skills. That people will often say 'thank you' to them after getting a ticket - b/c they've been treated with respect. And that it was the CHP who were out of their jurisdiction who witnessed helpless and shocked King's beating by the LAPD. You don't get that kind of reputation or reaction by harboring a secret culture of petty bullies and sadists. B/c sooner or later it does come out in very work-related ways.
As it did and continues to do with the LAPD, and maybe even in Hero's neck of the woods.
IMHO
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Hello,
I guess my point, Rue, is that hearing his position on one topic, or thinking you understand one of his failings, does not tell you everything you need to know about him as a human being.
I further believe it IS possible to have a personal prejudice, kink, etc and not let it interfere with your work. In the Home Equity business, for instance, I have worked with racist people who do not let their racism affect their decisioning. Their racism is regrettable, but it's their conduct at work that determines whether they keep their jobs.
I think it's possible for Hero to laugh at misfortune (probably because he sees so much of it, and prefers laughter to tears) and still do a good job at his business. Ever read Stranger in a Strange Land's take on humor? It's illuminating.
You also can't (shouldn't) ascribe to him the failings of the LAPD. The fact is, Hero can disagree with us, have a different political position, and even deal with pain differently than us... and still be good at his job. He might even be a great guy.
I don't always agree with either of you. (Though I think I more frequently disagree with Hero. He doesn't seem to place personal Liberties on the level I like) But I don't know either of you well enough to judge you. If you were a fry cook, I wouldn't assume you'd burn the fries of LAPD customers just because you might not like them. We can't assume Hero allows personal prejudice to interfere with his job, either.
This internet thing is a one dimensional way to meet people, and we shouldn't judge people based on this one-sided window. That's all.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I disagree, Anthony.. my theory, my take on it, is thus.
You wanna take the real measure of another person, contrary to Shaun Yu, you simply remove all consequence, for good or ill, from their actions.
And then you observe what they do.
Cause at the root of it, what you do, is who you are.
The real "core person" comes out, you see, how they wish to be, unhindered by threat of consequence - and this says a damn lot about them personally, especially viewed over time, in an overall sense, it tells you who they are behind the polite fictions we hold up as masks in public.
He's a twisted dude, working in a twisted system, and sadistically reveling in the power it gives him, especially since as a prosecutor, the deck is massively pre-stacked in his favor, and prosecutor misconduct is so very rarely penalized that it's front page news when it happens.
I could maybe overlook that, if it were not for the fact that all he believes in, all that he represents, with fanatic devotion, is a direct threat to my beliefs and personhood - he knows it, and celebrates it, so there's no way in hell I can be anything but downright crass to him directly - conversely, my very existance and actions are a similar threat to all he holds dear.
When you threaten a person at the root of all they are, generally the human reaction and response is to throw all your force against it in hopes of savaging it's power to harm you.
In light of that, you just ain't gonna get polite, it's not gonna happen, not even possible, consider it a minor miracle that any discussion at all takes place.
I sure hell ain't the nicest of folk either, but my agenda is as crystal clear as I can make it, right up front, you have to give me that one, at the very least.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Amen Fletch, I ain't never found it funny neither.
Re: Hospital Humor...
Doll, I *AM* hospital humor, the guy they kept waitin for to die so they could clear the room for the next one.. who just.. wouldn't.
After a while it got funny even to me!
Not to mention the fact that I fired any doc or therapist who uttered the words "won't" or "can't" and replaced them with some mad scientist types who joke that they could do frankenstein one better any day of the week and would probably try, given the opportunity.
And of course the whole "patient: some assembly required" bit, detachable limbs come with a whole range of side-joke options 
I think the darkest bit of that was the pulse monitor going flatline when the sensor fell off, and the doc commenting "About damn time!" only to be met with a patient awake and aware, if just barely, who handed him a an empty coffee mug "Not quite yet, get me some coffee, bitch!" - it was just so totally ludicrous that we had to laugh, you know ?
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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In another thread, far away.... we discussed whether the USA was a police state. And one of the questions that came up was whether ALL cops were bad people. Hero said... it {is} all funny till somebody dies. No, wait, that was Hero talking about himself.
My point is not that Hero is a bad person, but that the criminal justice system dehumanizes everyone who works in it. Not only do cops, detectives, and prosecutors see the horrors that most people are shielded from, their job is to be vengeful and of course they see people as "evil". That's why cops can stand over a person writhing and screaming and apply the taser over and over... and prosecutors can find it funny. It's not a normal response and everyone who participates in it is pathological to some extent, but it's part of the system.
The difference between nurses/ doctors/ social workers versus soldiers/ cops/ prosecutors is the mission to HELP. That's why medical professionals can see the same horrors (car accident) but develop a different response. People who use guns or tasers or "punishment" are shaped by the tools they use.
The answer is to get away from the view vengeance can resolve our crime problem. Very few criminals are "cured" of their behavior by a stint in jail.
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Always look upstream.
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And Sig rapidly approaches the topic of 'Means and Ends'
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=31493
We allow the system to exist as it is, part of the price is it's tendency to dehumanize that which it is ostensibly put in place to serve.
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"You wanna take the real measure of another person, contrary to Shaun Yu, you simply remove all consequence, for good or ill, from their actions."
Hello,
There is some merit to this viewpoint. You made me pause and reconsider my position. The internet is, after all, an opportunity to display ourselves to the world in whatever way we like.
However, I propose that how we wish we were, and how we see ourselves, often bears little resemblance to who we are. Many are the rebels who cower in the face of consequence. Many are the tough guys who melt before an adversary. Many are the men who weep in secret during a chick flick, and curse themselves for their 'weakness.'
The faux tough guy is unlikely to position himself as a coward online. The flick weeper is unlikely to admit to his 'failing' in a forum. The rebel will continue to lambast the 'man' and advocate rebellion even though he fears jail more than he loves his philosophy of freedom.
Sometimes what we project in an arena 'without consequence' bears little resemblance to who we are. Sometimes it is what we do despite consequences that really reveals us. That having been said, your premise has really made me think this over.
Still, I believe you need a 360 degree perception of someone before you can judge them as a person. It's different from saying, 'Was it wrong of him to steal that man's hubcaps?' That is a specific question with clear points of evidence.
Asking 'Is he a bad guy?' is a much deeper question and one that requires a great deal of insight. We don't get that here, and I don't think we should rush to judgement without it. Why would we want to?
It's enough that Hero has bad ideas. We don't need to see him as a bad person.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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AnthonyT- In my last post I really wasn't trying to pin anything on Hero specifically, I was talking more generally about "people" and "systems".
But you bring up an interesting point about people's response to consequences: "Punishment" DOES work as a deterrent. But not jail time. The punishment that people fear most is separation from their group of choice through embarassment etc. As a deterrent to bad behavior punishment has to be nearly immediate, and it has to be meaningful to the person being punished. A lot of gang-bangers, for instance, see going to jail as a way of earning the chops. Our particular system is really just vengeance masquerading as "justice". So I wonder: Are we really interested in reducing crime, or do we just want to be angry and righteous?
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Always look upstream.
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LeadB, you get my point! Most people don't 
YAAAAAY!!! :fireworks:
Thanks for the discussion folks. (That means you too Hero). Gotta get to work. Hope to catch up later.
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Always look upstream.
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Hi Frem
I was hesitating to post my story, knowing your own history. So I'm glad it didn't throw you off.
Hi AnthonyT
I knew of a guy who was quite popular with the boss, co-workers and neighbors but would beat up and terrorize his wife and children because there were no 'consequences' to that. And studies have found generally that on-line discussions tend to be meaner b/c the 'consequences' you get with face to face interactions are missing. I would think in general that people more freely express their 'true' selves online than in real life.
SignyM
Many people become dehumanized and some people are born that way, IMHO. I think MOST people respond to the system they are in, but it goes beyond the 'type' of system.
For example two county hospitals compared and two police systems compared.
Erie County Medical Center (one of the hospitals where I worked) was a phenomenal county hospital staffed with capable, dedicated employees. Compare that with King-Drew the LA County House of Horrors, which has continued as charnel house despite progressive loss of federal funding and a complete replacement of upper management plus direct oversight. The CHP are noted for their professionalism, due, I've been told, to the efforts of one person who somehow found a way to completely turn then around. Compare them with the LAPD which has been a thuggish organization for decades resistant to changes at the top. And so on.
It seems once a 'culture' becomes established by whatever means, it becomes resistant to change. I wish it were as easy as - if you build it, they will change. But there's an least one extra part of the system and it's unknown to me.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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