The Savant Crew
POSTED BY: jewelstaitefan
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 23:47
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I think a reply of mine is missing.
I intended and agree that savants are not perfect - they are only gifted in a focused application. Perfection is not the point here - just that they are gifted. In the Pilot, River is effecti8vely the primary catalyst for the problems/tensions which the show is based on - the 8 months from Pilot to BDM. And River is the Mother-of-all-Savants - and Serenity is likely the safest place in the verse for her, although Simon didn't know this when he tried to sneak her as cargo for a short trip - just that they didn't ask too many questions.
Simon would not have been in any "high school" as we conjure. By the end of his teens he already completed college, med school, internship, and was a trauma surgeon. If high schoool is for learning, he aced it. If high school is for making the dumb feel like they have some contibution to make in their community, Simon probably didn't have those courses, activities, or experiences.
Another thing. Other than BDM where the teacher is narrator at the beginning, and Book provides foreshadowing - even of his own death, the only foreshadowing and narration we get are from River.
So, does River ever speak an untruth? Other than the Book's hair thing in Jaynestown, I can't recall any.
Sort of fetching that, since she is providing the most accurate and valuable information in the show, the crew ignores her input.
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stilll coming back to this interesting thread - and bumping (hoping for additional posts!)
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Quote:
Originally posted by shinyseven2:
Actually I think that the crew are much less perfect than the usual, less textured, space opera heroes. If Mal were better at his chosen vocation of petty crime, he wouldn't be broke all the time and perpetually shot at by the people who are supposed to be on his side.
In many ways, Inara is a model Companion, but she fails in the critical job skill of not falling in love with completely unsuitable men.
And, while any geek (a substantial part of the Firefly audience, I'm sure) can sympathize, Simon obviously failed every part of high school not actually involving classrooms.
However, Jayne has already gotten much older than mercenaries generally get to be, so he must be pretty good at it...and let's not forget his Miracle of the Bent Scope.
I think this post minimizes the caliber of talent the crew has, and the most obvious example is Kaylee. We're not talking about a lawnmower here, but an interstellar spacecraft propulsion system. She's 19 and Mal's been captain for years. As a teen without training she just knows how to fix the ship, and kludge many other things. Heroes in other shows of this genre are academy trained, and are heroes because they excelled in their classes. Here on earth there are gobs of folk who can't even repair an auto engine - in America they can be found working as mechanics at car dealerships.
Even though they are 500 years in the future, the exchanges with River show they have not expanded upon mind-reading or knowledge transfer, so training is still the same way we learn now - so Kaylee's talents are really far beyond our comprehension. Savant is the only way to encompass the idea.
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There are a lot of good points made about the 'savant-ness' (is that a word?) of the crew. However, I feel like Inara's not getting enough play, so I'll step up and point stuff out. Being a Companion is more than just the sex. They're not whores but more like geishas, trained in the arts of entertainment and emotional manipulation (not necessarily in bad way). It is pointed out by Nandy in Heart of Gold that Inara is 'exceptional' and could have been 'house priestess', obviously a high position in the Companion hierarchy. Thus, this puts her above other Companions, granting her 'savant' status. At least in my book.
Also I'd like to point out that there are also a few, let's call them, villain-savants. Namely, Yo-Saff-Bridg and Jubal Early. YSB is an expert at being all 'articulate', as well as obviously knowledgeable about mechanics and ships, and, I'd bet, many other things relating to crime. Jubal Early is intuitive to nearly psychic levels, and a master in combat. He very nearly beats our hero-savants, until being outwitted by River.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waltzing:
Also I'd like to point out that there are also a few, let's call them, villain-savants. Namely, Yo-Saff-Bridg and Jubal Early. YSB is an expert at being all 'articulate', as well as obviously knowledgeable about mechanics and ships, and, I'd bet, many other things relating to crime. Jubal Early is intuitive to nearly psychic levels, and a master in combat. He very nearly beats our hero-savants, until being outwitted by River.
what's interesting is Early as a sort of Anti-River
Yo/Saff as anti-mal - nandi as anti-inara etc... they (nearly) all have shadows - even jayne in jayne's town meets an 'opposite'...
Simon* and Zoe - not so much (but hell we only got one season gorramit!)
Book loses out by virtue of being the only crew member with no significant storyline. But the shadow to his Faith is not Mals lack of faith so much as it is the blind faith (and i do mean blind - even in the novelisiation he's still got the specs joss gave him originally) in the Alliance of the Operative**.
*it's possible to see Gabriel as a potential shadow - maybe if he had come back..
** also gifted - a savant??? i'm beginning to think savant just means superhero...
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Quote:
what's interesting is Early as a sort of Anti-River
Yo/Saff as anti-mal - nandi as anti-inara etc... they (nearly) all have shadows - even jayne in jayne's town meets an 'opposite'...
Simon* and Zoe - not so much (but hell we only got one season gorramit!)
Book loses out by virtue of being the only crew member with no significant storyline. But the shadow to his Faith is not Mals lack of faith so much as it is the blind faith (and i do mean blind - even in the novelisiation he's still got the specs joss gave him originally) in the Alliance of the Operative**.
*it's possible to see Gabriel as a potential shadow - maybe if he had come back..
You're right- there is a lot of hero/villain echoing. I especially like the idea that Saffron is the anti-Mal.
Along the echoing line, as far as Simon goes, I heard someone's idea (I believe it was on the fireflytalk podcast) that Simon is basically Mal raised in a wealthy family. I had to stop and think but it does make sense, both being strong characters who had been let down by those they trusted (the independent movement for Mal, his parents for Simon). This isn't really an echo so much as a different version. So, yeah.
Quote:
** also gifted - a savant??? i'm beginning to think savant just means superhero...
The Operative is gifted, yes, but I don't think he's a savant. A savant is someone who is extremely gifted, beyond just, well, gifted. The Operative is good, and definitely scary, but I can't think of anything he did that's particularly savant-like. He didn't track Serenity, wasn't as fast a draw as Mal, and in the end he becomes a shadow, and it seems hinted at that he almost won't be able to go on living. Anyway that's my take on it. Any contradicting views/thoughts will be duly noted and considered.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waltzing:Quote:
** also gifted - a savant??? i'm beginning to think savant just means superhero...
The Operative is gifted, yes, but I don't think he's a savant. A savant is someone who is extremely gifted, beyond just, well, gifted. The Operative is good, and definitely scary, but I can't think of anything he did that's particularly savant-like. He didn't track Serenity, wasn't as fast a draw as Mal, and in the end he becomes a shadow, and it seems hinted at that he almost won't be able to go on living. Anyway that's my take on it. Any contradicting views/thoughts will be duly noted and considered.
nah i kinda knew even as i typed it -LOL! -
The Op is just his training, but the very maximum. All the crew are creative with their talent (as indeed are their villain-echoes) but the Op is NOT creative - he is a steam hammer to crack a nut. "When your quarry goes to ground, leave no ground to go to" is the same degree of (lack of) imagination as collective punishment to weed out a lone culprit - plus Mal's ingenuity with the reaver onslaught didn't even occur to the Op as a possible happening - till it came out of the sky right at him.
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Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
All the crew are creative with their talent (as indeed are their villain-echoes) but the Op is NOT creative - he is a steam hammer to crack a nut. "When your quarry goes to ground, leave no ground to go to" is the same degree of (lack of) imagination as collective punishment to weed out a lone culprit - plus Mal's ingenuity with the reaver onslaught didn't even occur to the Op as a possible happening - till it came out of the sky right at him.
Exactly! And I love it because it's so, well, Alliance, isn't it? Your hammer analogy is perfect, he's just wielding his power bluntly and it doesn't work, as the crew's creativity is what ultimately trips him up and saves them. Well, that and River's sweet moves.
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I think Gabriel would have been brought back as anti-Simon later on. They barely covered his significance in Safe, but there he was more of an anti-Mal...I've always seen Simon as following mostly in his father's footsteps, just that his father didn't follow his heart/conscience anymore. Tracey, also, was the anti-Simon. I think we would have eventually seen a major villain to shadow each of the main characters.
--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
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