Unpopular Opinions
POSTED BY: Lexan
UPDATED: Monday, August 3, 2026 22:05
VIEWED: 61897
PAGE 22 of 25
Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
One has lepers.
Serve it up, preacher!
Falling apart Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
There should have been male Companions highlighted in the show. I know they probably exist (I think I saw a boy/man in the training house in Serenity, and there were boy whores in HoG), and I wanted to see them. And if there weren't male Companions, then dammit, there should have been!
Unpopular opinion, unpopular opinion... hated the artwork for the graphic novel. Mal only sort of looked like Mal, and Simon... just bad. And I'm still not entirely sure what I think about Book stealing a mule (or whatever). Dobson's crazy fanaticism was also unbelievable for me.
I don't think Simon/Kaylee would work in the long run, either. Even if it could have, I don't see anyone else on the crew approving much. We tend to loose sight of it, what with her mechanical genius and all, but she's maybe 20, 21, and she'd need to grow up some to make it work. And as much fun as them hooking up at the end of the movie was, I imagine the next day Simon woke up and freaked out.
Oh, and Kaylee in the movie? I didn't like her nearly as much. I don't remember her being very funny, and in some scenes she was just so severe-looking. I'm sure if I watched the movie again so it was more recent I'd see the things I liked, but right now I don't remember Kaylee having very much of a point in the movie. The "You mean to say as sex?" got old quick, too.
River running right after her little speech to the wounded Simon? Didn't like that part visually. Right after the blast doors open and she's standing victorious? Maybe it's just the color on my TV, but that doesn't look good, either. I like it (except if I hadn't read these forums I wouldn't have the blast door niggle), but the visual appeal is a little lacking - it's just so dark.
The part I dislike most in the whole movie, though? Right after Zoe and Mal talk and he climbs down to his room, there's no good transition between that and her little interaction with Wash. It's so bizzare, and it bothers me a lot more than it should. Joss mentioned in the commentary (I think) that some people didn't get that those two were married, and I feel it's something he should have spent a teensy bit more time on.
Oh, and if I'd seen the movie first, I doubt I would be a Browncoat now. I like the movie because I'm invested in the characters, but stand-alone... Hearing that other people came to the 'verse through the movie is always weird.
Edit: And, I think it's operative, not Operative.
---
(Rules for voting - http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=30747&m=542683)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Inara's denial is not about having sex. Like I said: "she's knows she's sleeping with men for money, but chooses to call what she's doing something else." It's the 'calling it something else' part where the denial kicks in.
You don't, however, allow for the possibility that the sex element is not the most important aspect of it to her, that the therapy achieved through the entirety of the event, ceremonial tea, talking , sex, everything, is the point to her.
You reduce it all to one single aspect, and I disagree with that.
Quote:
INARA
These people like me, and I like
them. I like Atherton too, by the
way.
MAL
Well, sure, what's not to like? I'm
liable to sleep with him myself.
INARA
And he likes me, whether you see it
or not.
Do you honestly believe Inara honestly believes that? I honestly don't believe that. In fact, I say she can hardly even say it with a straight face. "These people like me," riiiight. Atherton himself, crude as he is, cuts right through the bull, painfully, but accurately defining Inara's undefinable allure:
I don't believe Inara believed it. I think she lied because she had chosen a bad client and that'd be the exact moment Mal would barge in on her job. She was trying not to loose ground to Mal over one case of bad judgment.
I don't think Atherton understands what a Companion is about, at all. He reduces them to the sex aspect, too.
Quote:Quote:
Your definition of what she does is a very narrow one, focusing only on the fact that sex takes place and not at all on anything else.
I focus on the sex part, here, to demonstrate that the sex is not just one aspect of being a Companion, next to the others, but is, in fact, the core activity (pardon the pun) of a Companion. Take away the sponge baths, and you'll still have a Companion. Take away the tea ceremonies, and you'll still have a Companion. But take away the sex, and suddenly it's no longer a Companion, but something completely different. Like a geisha.
Disagree. Take away the ceremony and the therapeutic aspect and you end up with a different kind of prostitution. Take away the sex and you end up with a different kind of therapy. Both, though, are integral to the Companion work.
Therapy and counseling are the point, sex is the means. Like talking or painting or behavior modification can be means.
Quote:Quote:
See, the thing for me is that there is more to Companioning than just sex.
Never said it weren't. But, in earnest, let's ask ourselves this: would folks still hire Inara for her undefinable allure alone, without having her in their bed? That's the point I've been making: that, yes, there's more to Companioning than just sex; but let's not kid ourselves, either: it's ultimately, really, the sex that's the product, to put it irreverently.
Nope, it's the kind of sex, the how and why of it. It's not just for the short-term sexual gratification of the client, there's more to it.
Quote:Quote:
You see, it's the "but" in there that doesn't work for me. To me it's an "and". No judgment necessary to divide the sexual aspect from the refinement.
But the "but" is factual. It's a common misunderstanding that a geisha had sex with her man. As a rule, she didn't. Courtisans, however, as a rule, did.
I'm not disputing your examples, I was disputing the distinction between respectable and sexual service that you made with your "but", because to me these two are combined in the Companion.
Quote:
Please, let's not romanticize prostitution in our day. It's not something women nowadays can choose, as the latest cool new job women's lib has opened up for them. Spend one day here, in Amsterdam, and you'll see differently.
I am not trying to romanticize anything- I' in Germany, myself. I am not saying that all prostitutes in Europe are happy and willingly in this
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I was not talking about abuse victims. I was talking about adult women making this choice. It's easy to revert to an abused background to undermine that aspect but what about women who were not abused? Are their choices free and they not victims? Or do you think it impossible that someone would make that choice without being damaged in some way and thus not fully in control of their choices?
What about women who were not abused? Well, that's the crux of the matter, ain't it? I consider female prostitution a form of abuse itself. It's like child labor. A child in, say, a sweatshop in India, may very well not look upon himself as exploited. After all, he's taking back a few welcome rupies and has no real knowledge or example of things possibly being any different than they currently are. To see that what's happening to him, indeed, does constitute abuse, he'd have to take a considerable amount of steps back, and see the overview--one he cannot possibly have in his position.
As for Inara, for the record, I don't think she's had an abusive past at all. Nonetheless, pulling those many steps back, on a whole, yes, I say female prostitution is a form of exploitation of the 'weaker' sex, in that I conjecture that if women were truly considered, and treated, equal to men, female prostitution would, most like, not exist--or be roughly on equal footing with male prostitution. There's boy whores in this 'Verse, for sure. But how many of them serve girl folks? See, that's the red flag for me: it just so happens it's primarily the women who are in a (sexual) subservient role to the men. Coincidence? I think not.
So, as for 'not fully in control of their choices,' when you take it from the general to the specific, things get fuzzy a mite fast: not every individual will experience the effects of the overall exploitation equally--or not at all, even. But, out of principle, I would, for the reasons stated, never be engaged in sexual procurement. Even if a person like Inara were to offer (yes, I know, "In your lonely, pathetic dreams," lol) I would decline. Not because I would think that she, her own self, was being horribly repressed per se, but simply because I consider female prositiution, on a whole, a type of abuse. I guess that's why they're called principles: because they come first. :)
Quote:Quote:
Saffron is a very good example. Not the duplicitous, real Saffron, of course, but the innocent girl she pretends to be. How many girls do you think are for real like that? Many, I reckon. And Mal does the honorable thing: he takes no advantage, even though she offers--with a passion.
But where would have been the harm had he accepted her offer? Why would be have been taking advantage? She - hypothetically - wanted it, was of age and actively pursued him. What would the harm have been?
No, THIS is the crux of the matter. :) It ties in with what you wrote earlier:
Quote:Quote:
Often, if you look closer, they've had some sort of abusive past. And that, when they've come of age, may well think that a life of prostitution is a thing they freely 'choose'. I wouldn't call that a free choice, though.
(...) Why not? If they, indeed, freely choose this, no one pressuring them, it is a free choice. It may not be a wise one, if it is born out of psychological problems, but it is a free one.
What's "pressuring them" is the predonderance of their past, is what. And that makes their 'free' choice highly tainted. A young women with an abusive past will, most like, have learnt that the only way for her to receive affection, or attention -- or what resembles those things, at least, in her mind -- is to 'give' of herself sexually. So, come of age, the profession she then allegedly 'chooses', has, in fact, very little to do with free will. For a choice to be truly free, one must namely also have REAL options; and real options require that one is aware of REAL alternatives. Ay, there's the rub.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
How do you account for the fact that some of the best sex between 2 lovers happens when both are pretending its casual? :)
Mal: "Seems like we arrived here in the nick of time. What does that make us?"
Zoe: "Big damn heroes, sir!"
Mal: "Aint we just!"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I am not so certain Inara doesn't really believe her customers and thier kind really li9ke her.
Whenever one of her clients asks her.....to be his permanent companion, they have enough money, the camera always goes back to her face with a disappointed look, like she would have been flattered or considered it if they'd asked her to marry them. But just be a perpetual slave is not what she's looking for. She is disappointed to be reminded that they only consider her to be companion material, and not wife material.
I suspect KayLee is a big reason she stays on serenity - KayLee makes her feel as glamorous as she thinks she should feel, and KayLee does it right in front of Mal.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Phew! I finally got to the end of this thread.
Here's my little rant about the BDM. I do like it as a whole and separate from the series, but. . .
I don't like Mr. Universe. The name is stupid, and he shouldn't have gotten a grave next to Book and Wash at the end. He was a poorly-concocted glue for the BDH to solve their tech problems.
I'm disgusted with any Rayne mention.
I liked the humor in BDM;my fave lines are in it.
I hate River's "I swallowed a bug." line-- it was too much. But I think her best-acted line is "do you?" to Mal at the beginning-- it's such a forshadow. (Why does River have to wear those elfin boots and trade in her girly dresses for nightgowns?)
The movie coloring was too dark! You can't see anyone's faces.
That's it for now,
K
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
She wasn't on Sihnon, though!! It was a little backwater Training House. If you watch the deleted scenes, it comes through in how she talks about the girls. That's not Sihnon standard, certainly.
With so much disagreeing going on of late, I'd almost forget I usually agree with you. :)
Yes, that weren't Sihnon--not by long shot. Sihnon is highly sophisticated and technologically advanced. From space, the planet has a deep red color. Described by Inara "like an ocean of light." Her quarters on the shuttle are kind of a red-ish color, too--an atmosphere no doubt modelled after Sihnon home life. Also, remember this convo?
INARA
I guess we're having
something of a problem
here with the locals.
MAL
And, I thought maybe...
You could use a gun hand?
Believe you me, the peeps on Sihnon wouldn't need a bunch of brigand gun-slingers to help em out (can you use 'brigand' as an adjective?). No, if that were Sihnon, then I'm Alliance. And a lion, too, for that matter. :)
Quote:
She could have gone anywhere, really. And worked there. The movie put her in a Training House for the sake of convenience. It neglected a lot of things about her character for the sake of convenience, but this one bugs me the most because it takes away the greatest point of conflict between Mal and Inara and replaces it with "Mal has trouble admitting his feelings" which is just wrong, as he was about to tell her right there in "Heart of Gold".
Agreed. Agreed. And agreed. Yes, the "Mal has trouble admitting his feelings" part was odd (couched in the patently obvious "Kaylee's been missing you something fierce." line). It also simply misrepresents the situation between them. Or simply just tells half the story. Boy, if ever I saw "Half of writing history is hiding the truth." in action, then it was in the BDM itself, about Inara! For frak's sake, by the end of the BDM I didn't even know her profession! (I saw the BDM first).
So, for the sake of whose convenience exactly did they put her on that backwater? Not for mine, for certain. :) It don't make no sense. 'Cept that 'Nara needed to be situated on a backbirth planet/moon type, so as to set Mal up for a faux 'Heart of Gold' kinda rescue mission. Which works great if you hadn't seen Firefly yet; otherwise, not so much. The more plausible thing would have been for Inara to have settled somewhere on, say, Ariel. Or indeed on Sihnon.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Ooh unpopular opinion time. I've read quite a bit of this thread and seen things I agree with, things I definitely don't agree with, and some things that made me re-think what I do and don't agree with (got all that?). So now ... my turn.
I don't like Book. And before you fire, just hear me out. To me he was one of the least interesting characters in the series. We didn't even realize that he might have a more 'interesting' past until the episode Ariel. That was the only time Book felt at all three-dimensional to me. Otherwise he was barely in the episodes, if he was even there at all. Plus the continual lines of 'how does a preacher know so much about (guns, ships, etc)?' got annoying, like they were hammering the 'mystery' home a bit too hard. In the end, I just felt that he didn't bring very much to the dynamic of the show- he didn't add anything. Maybe if the show had been on longer, he would have been given more depth, but as it is, he's just not much of a presence.
Ok, now you can fire. (ducks)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
If you go to wikipedia under firefly and check each of the episodes, it looks like Book has several hints to an interesting past life. Actually he was one of the few unanswered questions I most pined for after Firefly was cancelled and upset over not having any real answers after Serenity. I of course looked on the bright side and saw that there was plenty of material for a second movie. 
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME