Unpopular Opinions
POSTED BY: Lexan
UPDATED: Monday, August 3, 2026 22:05
VIEWED: 61897
PAGE 21 of 25
I'm not too big on TALKING about M&I. If they had hot monkey sex, my interest level would be higher.
A side note: recently in some interview, Nathan said he didn't want M&I to kiss. Morena asked him "you don't want to kiss me?" Nathan said "Oh, I definitely want to kiss you, just not for the show." Morena replied "Good answer."
In BDM, Mal's last words to Inara are "Good answer."
Anyhow, why are M&I such an item? For Inara, creating chemistry with EVERYBODY is part of her training and craft - she is supposed to be desirable to everybody, and have chemistry with them all. So obviously Mal finds her attractive, as does everybody, and he surely knows this.
In Out of Gas, I thought I noticed that he does not call her whore until after she proclaims that she supported Unification. He seems to have no conflict, animosity, or dissagreement with her until after that statement.
Mal respects Zoe in some part because she also does not want to be under the thumb of Alliance opression. I cannot see him having the level of attraction/intrigue for Inara if she wasn't displaying her "independant" streak by spending so much time away from Alliance controlled areas, and with thieves like on Serenity. I don't see Mal falling for anybody who is entirely comfy being a core citizen - just not his type. Her higher social standing might tack on some points, but are not asd important as her level of independence. Companinions are creatures of the Core and Centrals, not common among the rim or places where reavers might be. Nandi was an example of how unwanted and disrespected Companions were outside the Core/Centrals. I'm fairly sure that Mal never knows where he stands with Inara - he is always unsure of his footing around her, except in situations where he needs her to just be quient and obey while he gets serenity out of danger or other compromising situation.
Not that I could really understand why any woman would want any particular man, but Joss is nice enough to try to spell it our for me - and Inara does say that Mal is unique in being not highly understandable (or maybe predictable - in her spongebath scene). His independence and aversion to the Alliance, as well in his honorability and loyalty to his own seem to be her key points of attraction.
So, Maybe Inara could fall for another, unless she's "IN LOVE" with Mal - which is what Nandi finally figured out. But I don't think he'll get over Inara and fall as hard for somebody else.
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Hey, another unpopular opinion...the thought River read from Simon in Objects in Space isn't all it's cracked up to be. She only read what was in his mind at that moment: he was recalling an enjoyable time of friendship and male bonding, no wonder he wanted to be back there. And later, when he repeats a similar sentiment to Kaylee, she and Shepherd Book (and maybe Inara) are the only people who treat him with more than reluctant tolerance. At that moment in time, it's unrealistic to do anything but wish he was back in his old life. That doesn't mean he doesn't care for Kaylee. More importantly, that doesn't mean that's what he's always going to think.
Most importantly, and something that might be an unpopular opinion, I believe that all characters grow and have shown signs of growth. I don't think we can judge any of them totally by what they once said or thought. I also think priorities can and have changed for pretty much all of them.
I see more opportunity for growth in Simon and Kaylee than in Mal and Inara...of the pairs, the former have grown and changed for the better at least three times as much as the latter in the short season we saw.
Another opinion that seems to be unpopular: Simon is perfectly right to have River as his first priority. Of the women he cares about, who's the schizophrenic who needs constant care to keep from hurting others or herself? Not Kaylee, that's for sure. Romance is not the most important thing, and Simon's darned right for recognizing that. I think that dynamic changes post-BDM, and I think that Simon will (eventually; he's still clueless) realize that.
--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
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Merry - i'm not sure your opinions are all that unpopular!:)
damn straight we all miss / curse the fact that a long show (e.g. angel) has room for character growth -
we alas are left with an arc that finishes BDM. --
in a fan's estimation tthat is too soon!
the joy is that all options are possible (hence fic) we're just arguuing the likelies...
Asarian - Agent Rouka - Platonist - Jewelstaitefan ; posts like yours (and merry's and many others) convince me -
a) i love this shiny site
b) Jane Espenson should do a 3rd book 'Serenity Held' -
detailing eveything from the podcasts to this site's wonderful character examinations (some of you peopple have articles in you i can tell!) -
to 11th hour's bookmarks - to 'kids need to read' and on and on.
even more OT sidebar - congrats P for your daughter!:)
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I don't know about everyone accepting character growth, Wytchcroft. I know I've gotten caught into putting characters into a box, and I can definitely see others doing it. It's easy to label characters by what we see them doing most often or by what they do that's most defining, and then assume that they'll always do that. Even when we see characters change and grow, fics rarely acknowledge that, especially sequel fics. And in discussion, I see most people using everything about a character to define what's "in character", instead of realizing that what's "in character" at one point in time would be out of place later on in their development. So it's probably an unconscious opinion, because I've caught myself falling into it occasionally, but it seems to be that most people don't approve of character growth. 
--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
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Some character growths I can stomach, others not so much. It all depends on the "Why". You have to remember what the characters are doing now is for a reason.
As an example mal/Inara issues. I have no idea why her being a companion/whore is always the major issue. It was not in the series. Their clashes seemed to focus more on authority. Inara undermined Mal. Mal's decisions meant Inara had to play second fiddle in lining up her jobs.
Yes, Mal did not respect Inara's job (some fic out there put it well. "Should not have to afford love" or something like that), but for Mal there never was an issue of her job holding them apart.
Back onto topic of change - they get together. Her quitting is not enough. Nor satisfactory. It does not get to the heart of the matter as a certain Mr Niska would say.
For me being in character is about motivation. The "Why" of it all. If you have that right, the same character can react in a number of different ways and they would all be "in character". Ofcourse noone apart from joss really knows what their motivations are...
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Just realized another one.
I'm not too big a fan of the music.
I know on the DVD they talked about how amazing the music is one the show and how Nathan cries when he hears it, but when I remember the series, I don't really recall the music. I mean, there are no themes or motifs or anything that stand out in my mind, and I'm not itching for a FIREFLY soundtrack. And that includes the theme song. Was never too big a fan of "The Ballad of Serenity". On the DVD, I always skip past the credit sequence mainly because of the song. I always thought the lyrics were really hokey and oatey. Like they were trying to give it a "good ol' boy" feeling to the series.
In comparison, I think the music to HEROES and BIG LOVE are shows that if they had a soundtrack to I'd immediately buy. The HEROES music is so evocative and unusual. It sounds traditionally heroic, but it has an otherworldly quality to it. You keep in mind the music when you watch the show because it really helps the overall quality of the series. BIG LOVE I pay attention to because it's done by David Byrne of the Talking Heads.
I dunno. Maybe I'm more drawn to series that has rock stars or rock star affiliates doing the music.
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"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."
Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack
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Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Likewise with Inara: she's knows she's sleeping with men for money, but chooses to call what she's doing something else; like 'therapy,' for instance. As a therapist would say: Can't imagine how many times men in my position hear that excuse. :) I agree that Inara is not lying. But she's nonetheless living a lie. That's what denial is.
I can't see what she does as denial because I don't think Inara, in all honesty, has issues with the sex aspect of her work. Your definition of what she does is a very narrow one, focusing only on the fact that sex takes place and not at all on anything else.
See, the thing for me is that there is more to Companioning than just sex. It is a form of therapy through sex.
Sex is the means, not the end.
There are many types of therapy and the Companion type is sexuality. Why must the sex be focused on exclusively, as opposed to the therapeutic intention in there?
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She fights against the denigrating word because she believes that its wrong.
Actually, that's not true. In Heart of Gold Inara uses the word "whore" on women, too. Mal is even shocked that she does it:
I know she does, but I still hold with my opinion . I think she was trying to keep things neutral because their bickering was not the focus at hand. Using Mal's term to describe what Nandi does was the quickest way to get across that a) they are not Companions and don't have Guild protection and b) their expected living conditions. It was a linguistic sacrifice for the sake of quick communication and minimum confrontation.
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There this joke ascribed to Churchill, where he asks a lady whether she would sleep with men for, say, $100. She's highly offended. Then he asks her whether she'd do it for a million, and she goes: "Hmmm.." She then asks him whether he thinks she's a prostitute. To which he answers: "Madam, we've already established what you are; we're just determining your price." Point being exactly the one you made: highly skilled or merely talented, they're both singers. :)
I already class them in a category: prostitute. I do not accept the blanket term whore because it's derogatory.
Not to mention, in your example the money is the woman's only motivation. Nothing suggests that it is for Inara.
Quote:
And you presuppose a presupposition where none exists. :) A Companion is a kind of mix between a geisha and a courtisan: all the refinement and education of a geisha, but sleeping with the clients (courtisans).
You see, it's the "but" in there that doesn't work for me. To me it's an "and". No judgment necessary to divide the sexual aspect from the refinement.
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You seem to start from the position that prostitution is in itself unrespectable, saying that social acceptance and wealth must be tied to a facade. Is that just my impression?
It is my belief that prostitution is a form of exploitation of women, no matter how nicely it's dressed up, yes. And that everyone involved in the trade, by consequence, is, one way or the other, in denial about that.
Where is the exploitation if both parties are of consenting age, willing and in full agreement about what takes place?
I am all against exploitation and into that I count the type of prostitution that results from poverty and a lack of substantial alternative. But there are educated, adult women with options choosing to be prostitutes and fine with it. Look at the Netherlands or Germany. Why is that exploitation?
What about the act of sex makes it exploitation if it is turned into a service willingly provided?
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I wouldn't call prostitution 'unrespectable', though, as that entails a judgement towards the women-one I do not share.
Is it not a judgment to imply that their adult choices must be built upon denial? That they aren't making rational choices even if they say and feel they do? Aren
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:I stand corrected; thanks Pach!
Originally posted by pachelbel:
I believe he said "change is the essential process of all existence."
Memory didn't serve Chrisisall
You're welcome.
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I think this may be an unpopular opinion....I think Mal Reynolds is an ass. Ironically I like the character...I really do his loyalty to his people is heartwarming, but if I met him in real life I'd put alot of effort into avoiding him ...friends of mine are in love with the character,Mal's their ideal guy.That concerns me coz he's got so much baggage he won't deal with, and is chronically screwed up...interestingly my favourite characters are Jayne and Badger.Yes they are flawed, but they are what they are. There is nothing hidden under the surface no mysteries to decipher.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I can't see what she does as denial because I don't think Inara, in all honesty, has issues with the sex aspect of her work.
Inara's denial is not about having sex. Like I said: "she's knows she's sleeping with men for money, but chooses to call what she's doing something else." It's the 'calling it something else' part where the denial kicks in. Shindig:
INARA
These people like me, and I like
them. I like Atherton too, by the
way.
MAL
Well, sure, what's not to like? I'm
liable to sleep with him myself.
INARA
And he likes me, whether you see it
or not.
Do you honestly believe Inara honestly believes that? I honestly don't believe that. In fact, I say she can hardly even say it with a straight face. "These people like me," riiiight. Atherton himself, crude as he is, cuts right through the bull, painfully, but accurately defining Inara's undefinable allure:
ATHERTON
Half the men in this room wish you
were on their arm tonight.
INARA
Only half? I must be losing my undefinable allure.
ATHERTON
Not that undefinable. All of them
wish you were in their bed.
Quote:
Your definition of what she does is a very narrow one, focusing only on the fact that sex takes place and not at all on anything else.
I'm not telling people what to see; I'm just trying to show them how. :) I focus on the sex part, here, to demonstrate that the sex is not just one aspect of being a Companion, next to the others, but is, in fact, the core activity (pardon the pun) of a Companion. Take away the sponge baths, and you'll still have a Companion. Take away the tea ceremonies, and you'll still have a Companion. But take away the sex, and suddenly it's no longer a Companion, but something completely different. Like a geisha.
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See, the thing for me is that there is more to Companioning than just sex.
Never said it weren't. But, in earnest, let's ask ourselves this: would folks still hire Inara for her undefinable allure alone, without having her in their bed? That's the point I've been making: that, yes, there's more to Companioning than just sex; but let's not kid ourselves, either: it's ultimately, really, the sex that's the product, to put it irreverently.
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I know she does, but I still hold with my opinion. I think she was trying to keep things neutral because their bickering was not the focus at hand. Using Mal's term to describe what Nandi does was the quickest way to get across that a) they are not Companions and don't have Guild protection and b) their expected living conditions. It was a linguistic sacrifice for the sake of quick communication and minimum confrontation.
I'll give you a point for this. +1.
Quote:
You see, it's the "but" in there that doesn't work for me. To me it's an "and". No judgment necessary to divide the sexual aspect from the refinement.
But the "but" is factual. It's a common misunderstanding that a geisha had sex with her man. As a rule, she didn't. Courtisans, however, as a rule, did.
Quote:
Where is the exploitation if both parties are of consenting age, willing and in full agreement about what takes place?
I am all against exploitation and into that I count the type of prostitution that results from poverty and a lack of substantial alternative. But there are educated, adult women with options choosing to be prostitutes and fine with it. Look at the Netherlands or Germany. Why is that exploitation?
Is that the direction you want this conversation to go in? :) Seriously, I'm from the Netherlands, my own self. And I can tell you, there ain't nothing non-exploitive about the women sitting behind glass windows in our red light district. Having said that, reports of prostitution in our capital are highly exaggerated; but still. Please, let's not romanticize prostitution in our day. It's not something women nowadays can choose, as the latest cool new job women's lib has opened up for them. Spend on
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