Does Serenity fetishise River???
POSTED BY: wytchcroft
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 05:21
VIEWED: 15343
PAGE 4 of 5
River's first appearance was NUDE!
A short skirt in the movie seems like less of an issue than that!
I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.
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I don't think Serenity Fetishizes River. Yes, she seems more sexy, with clingy clothes and flowy skirts, but this is compared to the 'Kaylee Rejects' She'd been wearing previously. Maybe she picked out her own clothes in between the BDS and the BDM. Also, they aren't really skimpy clothes. Her skirts are all around knee length, and the décolletage of her tops was within the bounds of decency. And none of her clothes were midriff baring, or spaghetti strapped.
I didn't have trouble with Summer's characterization of River during the movie either ((I hesitate to say 'brilliant' characterization only because I haven't yet supported this claim)). Her character had morphed, as had they all, since OiS and things hadn't been going well. She's also deteriorating mentally (("There's not a medicine her body won't eventually break down.")), and to top it off the Alliance just "activated" her programming. It makes sense for some of the wonder and curiosity to go away, as she's now forced to focus on killing and maiming stuff. That internal conflict accounts for the "oddly focused/crying moonbrain" shifts. She's trying to cope, and not constantly succeeding. To top it off, she's got the whole of Miranda on her chest and doesn't have a way to articulate it. She's confused, violent because of the Alliance, and probably a bit pissed off with everyone not understanding the importance of her incoherent babbling.
Granted - None of the above applies to her feet. These were obviously fetishized, and rightly so, cause they're nice.
"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card
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Originally posted by cozen:Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Uh. River is not a manic depressive. Or a depressive at all. At least not exclusively. Her brain was messed with externally. That's got to be a bit different.
Not to mention, not all manic depressives are like River. You speak as if they all are?
I humbly offer, "Bullet in the brainpan, squish". Trust me, if ever you've experienced the horror of acute depressive behaviour, that line sums up the downside rather neatly. I don't think that how a depressive personality came to be, externally or internally, makes a whole lot of difference to such a personalilty, other than, obviously, for seeking the correct approach to curing the ailment.
Of course not all depressives are like River. Some, or most, are not quite so talented. However, it has been my experience that all are highly intelligent. You may have statistics which prove otherwise, in which case I'll defer to your expertise. I'm speaking from the humble levels of personal experiences, is all. Experiences which draw me to the characterisation of River, and all of River's talents, and all of the prices she pays for having those talents. Regardless of whether or not those talents were internally or externally induced.
I do agree with you that River was not exclusively a depressive. There was depth to that character that greatly pisses me off in light of the fact Joss lost (Fox trumped) the opportunity to expand upon them. Cuz, it ain't right to exclude folk, eh?
I'm glad we agree that River was not just a classical case of manic depression. (And I'll withhold any and all opinion on manic depressives in general, as I have none.)
I guess I'm just not certain what point you were trying to make.
None of what you said takes away that in the movie she displays (with very very few exceptions) exactly two modes.
And we know from the show that there is more depth to her than that. If she had just reversed her earlier improvement and deteriorated mentally, Mal would not have trusted her to do the job during the bank robbery, so she does have control.
The decision to make her all blank and (to me) boring, compared to the series, was a deliberate one.
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Originally posted by BrowncoatSandinista:
I don't think Serenity Fetishizes River. Yes, she seems more sexy, with clingy clothes and flowy skirts, but this is compared to the 'Kaylee Rejects' She'd been wearing previously. Maybe she picked out her own clothes in between the BDS and the BDM. Also, they aren't really skimpy clothes. Her skirts are all around knee length, and the décolletage of her tops was within the bounds of decency. And none of her clothes were midriff baring, or spaghetti strapped.
They are pretty clingy, though. They wouldn't have had to be. They could have still been sort of baggy and comfortable. They deliberately went for the sexy look.
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She's also deteriorating mentally (("There's not a medicine her body won't eventually break down.")), and to top it off the Alliance just "activated" her programming.
he cannot be that far gone, though, considering Mal is taking her on a job and trusting her to be in control there.
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It makes sense for some of the wonder and curiosity to go away, as she's now forced to focus on killing and maiming stuff. That internal conflict accounts for the "oddly focused/crying moonbrain" shifts. She's trying to cope, and not constantly succeeding. To top it off, she's got the whole of Miranda on her chest and doesn't have a way to articulate it. She's confused, violent because of the Alliance, and probably a bit pissed off with everyone not understanding the importance of her incoherent babbling.
However, they chose to write the movie that way. It's not like they got the script from someone else and had to follow. They could have introduced her differently, if her character had mattered as something other than the reduced, sexified version they chose.
They left a lot of blanks in favor of an easily recognized stereotype that the average Joe can recognize and find attractive.
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Granted - None of the above applies to her feet. These were obviously fetishized, and rightly so, cause they're nice.
Very true! Summer's feet would probably have earned their own spot in the title sequence had the show gone on! *G*
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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
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Originally posted by BrowncoatSandinista:
I don't think Serenity Fetishizes River. Yes, she seems more sexy, with clingy clothes and flowy skirts, but this is compared to the 'Kaylee Rejects' She'd been wearing previously. Maybe she picked out her own clothes in between the BDS and the BDM. Also, they aren't really skimpy clothes. Her skirts are all around knee length, and the décolletage of her tops was within the bounds of decency. And none of her clothes were midriff baring, or spaghetti strapped.
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They are pretty clingy, though. They wouldn't have had to be. They could have still been sort of baggy and comfortable. They deliberately went for the sexy look.
which is where it all starts to become subjective - i don't think there's an easy answer... and it's a helluva dress - got auctioned recently, very nice piece of work - but yeh - is it River???
i mood swing on this issue constantly....
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Huh...
I guess I had always just looked at it as a change in age. I buy new clothes every year, and my tastes change as do everyone's...I realize there is no proof to back up this claim, but I figured that, since Mal trusted her with the bank heist in Serenity, maybe he had trusted her with another job between the BDS and the BDM.
What would a teenage girl generally buy with a paycheck? New clothes. (glittering generalities, I know)
I think she was already showing change by Objects in Space. She was wearing a dress in that one wasn't she? It may have been kind of baggy, but I think it shows that her character WAS changing, and it was just never given as much time to develop.
As for her two modes of personality - sleep, and kill - I can agree that, for the most part, you are right about this. The movie wasn't long enough to show much more, given the story that was taking place. If she wasn't such an integral part of the story, I thinnk she may have had berry-picking, bible-fixing moments...but since she was so engrained in the story, there weren't very many chances for those moments to really shine (though I can't help but laugh whenever I see her investigating Simon and Kaylee's tongue-tangled adventure - which is clearly what River from the show would do)
I personally think that River's tight dresses are trying to go along with the overall feel of the movie - darker, sleeker, and...bluer.
I think her dresses show that there IS more depth to her - the way they all have several layers to them, I think has a lot to do with physically embodying her mental state. When her blue dress is all flowy and blowing, ti has different layers - like River. I think they were trying to match the clothing to the character - and in doing so, an extreme costume change was neccesary. She went from the wilting flower in the corner with baggy clothes, to the main attraction - kicking ass, and wearing clothes that matched her current attitude.
*I thought of an example from "Psycho." In the beginning of the movie, the female lead's underwear was white, signifying a sense of freedom and clarity in the character. Later, she is seen in black underwear, showing that she had a sense of guilt and something weighing down on her. I think Serenity does this too.
The whole movie did change the lighting, but, once again, that was neccesary for the story being told. Serenity is the dark and depressing story, so the lighting (even in familiar, normally warm-lighted places) mirrored the instability, hostility, and depression of the crew, and the situation they were pushed into.
As for sexy-ing up the cast? I think that they did that themselves. Kaylee had to gain thirty pounds to get her role...after it was cancelled, she probably lost the weight. Book's hair probably justv signified the time that had passed, and Mal buffing up...well...wouldn't you beef up if you were doing a shirtless scene? I know I would try...
Overall, I think that the decisions were made deliberately, and, more importantly, CORRECTLY, to fit the mood of the characters and the storyline of the film.
(Phew...that was long!)
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From River’s comment in Those Left Behind, “It smells like sex in here,” to a scene in the original Serenity script in where she acts out a sexual memory of Inara’s, (complete with moans) I really think Joss was trying to show that River was becoming sexually aware.
There obviously wasn’t enough time to show a more involved progression of River sexuality, something that would have been explored more leisurely had Firefly lived. It seems that it was important for Joss to show that River was indeed becoming a woman in what little or subtle ways he could without shifting the focus from more pressing stories.
River definitely looked like she was donning hand-me-downs and the series and didn’t have much choice in the way of fashion. I agree with some of the others in thinking that River was able to make a few shopping trips before Serenity, and her style is a personal choice. Also, I really don’t think her clothes are all that revealing. Buffy’s mini-mini skirts in season 1 & 2 are though!
I don’t discredit the fact that all things were shinned up for the film, that’s going to be a given. I just don’t think it’s entirely fair to blame River’s character growth fully on some fetishization. If anything, blame it on time restraints. If you don’t think her character was headed in that direction, then you can just call that denial.
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Gosh, Let me think on this, wytchcroft, I just don't know ...hmm...let us see, 90% of the current fanfic I DON'T click on in this verse is Rayne and the other 10% is Maliver, written by a large age range. Where do you think such ideas come from...hmm...is it subliminal?
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Originally posted by Romanceguru:
I don’t discredit the fact that all things were shinned up for the film, that’s going to be a given. I just don’t think it’s entirely fair to blame River’s character growth fully on some fetishization.
I do, though.
They gave a time frame of six months between series and movie, and if her character had been the point, as opposed to an easily interchangeable image of what River might have become in time, they would have cared about that. New medium or not. They could have refrained from dressing her up in clingy dresses.
They didn't, though. Sexy was more important. Not because it's important to her character but because it's an attention getting. Which is a disservice to quality in favor of selling the movie.
I think it's vital, in terms of a character, to show that sort of development. Especially when it comes to things that carry very strong fetish/fantasy connotations. Which the kinda goth-looking killer sex kitten plainly is.
I know why they did it, of course. Doesn't mean that they didn't do it.
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If anything, blame it on time restraints. If you don’t think her character was headed in that direction, then you can just call that denial.
I think she was headed there. In a much much loooonger time than they gave. A nice long stretch of time that would have made this development credible instead of creepy.
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I agree with parts of just about everyone's post... Yup, River looks much more appealing in the movie. Most of the characters do. I think when it comes to the women, Joss and crew can't seem to help but fetishize them a little, and River only gets the treatment now because she is growing and changing. I don't think it's out of place to have her look like a young woman rather than a girl, because that's important to her character arc. Because of what has happened, and because of the protectiveness of Simon, we are constantly seeing River as a child. It's not totally misguided: in the series, she is in need of the same amount of care as a very young child. But while she struggled to come to grips with what had happened, she was maturing.
War Stories gave us the first glimpse of her outside of her psychic craziness, and then Objects in Space showed us that she might have a chance to no longer need so much care. By the movie, she has continued on this path, so that Mal thinks she is ready to go on a heist, but then the triggering and Miranda memories drop her back into a state where she needs constant care. It is on Mr. Universe's moon that she graduates, becomes the young woman that she needs to become. She couldn't stay the frightened little girl forever.
And now, back to her appearance. She can't be killing Reavers in the clothes she wore in the series (which I personally believe are handmedowns from Kaylee and Simon's purchasing...hence the not-so-flattering), because that would give the wrong impression. She needs to look like what she is becoming. I don't think we were supposed to believe that she was becoming sexually aware. I just don't see any evidence of it in her portrayal or how others treat her. However, she has to look more grown up, and at first glance that may appear sexed up. I agree with the poster who said that she probably bought those with her money...her outfits look to me like something she would like, and something she would be especially inclined to buy after seeing Simon's reaction to them. 
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"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
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