Does Serenity fetishise River???
POSTED BY: wytchcroft
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 05:21
VIEWED: 15343
PAGE 3 of 5
Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Maybe it was just a somewhat unsuccessful attempt to show the adversity they'd faced.
It's very difficult to draw a line between what was done to "translate Firefly to a different medium" and is thus acceptable, and between what was perhaps an unfortunately rushed development or where quite simply sacrifices were made in terms of characterisation.
Maybe a lot of things about the movie were attempts, as opposed to well-thought-through decisions, and some worked and some failed.
Shouldn't stop us from criticising, though. We only abuse it because we love it, really. ;)
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I was referring to River being less child-like and curious and more emotionally distraught and serious (if not at times threatening). I think the style choices had more to do with them trying to sell to a larger audience.
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Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I was referring to River being less child-like and curious and more emotionally distraught and serious (if not at times threatening). I think the style choices had more to do with them trying to sell to a larger audience.
But couldn't her personality have been used there, too? My problem is not so much that she is serious, but that she has only two modes: Ethereally Calm or Freak-out. With very very very few exceptions. That doesn't make a personality to me, which I blame Joss's writing for in that instance.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:...she has only two modes: Ethereally Calm or Freak-out.
Ever known an acute (aka 'manic') depressive? Despite the fact that during their high moments they can stave off the necessary evils in order to facilitate saving the 'verse from suppressing knowledge of the Alliance's failed Pax experiment, you really don't want to share the effects of the low times, and would certainly appreciate their subtle and brilliant contributions during the 'tweener moments. Like for instance, in Season 3 when River pilots Serenity with love.
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Quote:
Originally posted by cozen:Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:...she has only two modes: Ethereally Calm or Freak-out.
Ever known an acute (aka 'manic') depressive? Despite the fact that during their high moments they can stave off the necessary evils in order to facilitate saving the 'verse from suppressing knowledge of the Alliance's failed Pax experiment, you really don't want to share the effects of the low times, and would certainly appreciate their subtle and brilliant contributions during the 'tweener moments. Like for instance, in Season 3 when River pilots Serenity with love.
Uh. River is not a manic depressive. Or a depressive at all. At least not exclusively. Her brain was messed with externally. That's got to be a bit different.
Not to mention, not all manic depressives are like River. You speak as if they all are?
And... There is no Season 3. Nor a season 2. I'm sure you speak of the last scene in the movie.
Which that one moment was not a 'tweener. It was an 'afterwards'. And she's pretty close to ethereally calm there, too.
I would have loved to see more modes. How much different from "Hysterical" can those low times be, really?
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Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Yeah, good pictures. Clearly everyone got sexy'd up in the BDM! But I agree with Wytchcroft - the lighting was more blue, a harsh blue-white, often from above to make actors look very angular, instead of the warm, soft, even glow of lighting in the series. I like the BDM lighting much less, but I guess Joss did what he had to do for the big screen.
oh - i think it was a definite choice - hence River's electric blue dress.
And the 'blue' extends to the posters and spin-offs such as Those Left Behind - which is definitely Serenity and NOT Firefly.
There's a touch of the 'harsh light of day' about the movie colours and light...
but is that like a BAD thing???
i like Rubber Soul - Kinda autumnal, mellow russet toned and warm.
i like The White Album - hard, lean, messy, and well, cold.
i play em when in the mood.
Firefly - Serenity both feel like different albums from the same band.
as for the fetish - well, it's an argument in iteself as to wether a fetish is necessarily good/bad... i guess.
my natural inclination is to be a little negative about it but -
i can't be hypocritical...
everytime i buy an audrey hepburn postcard, watch the first Tomb Raider movie or...
wotever -
am i not indulging some kind of fetish...
hello, didn't i mention the Beatles already....
so it's tricky...
but interesting...
especially as this thread has broadened out to show the changes in ALL the cast -
and I may focus on River - but what does that say - that to me she's already a fetish???
becoz others may wonder about Kaylee or Mal or Jayne (who genuinely seems fetished in fan fiction).
scattered thougths...
i don't think River's intelligence is diminished - the opening schooling scene tells us all we need to know....
i think her transformation was built into the series - it just happened more quickly coz of a lack of transitional episodes.
As for being sexed up - i've said it before - i'll say it again -
she gets 'triggered' in the 'maidenhead' which, y'know, (shudders) gah...
i think River's 'My turn now' is a lovely moment -
i think the whole final flight deck scene is a wonderful River moment as much as Mals...
i agree that a sexually active River seems creepy to me but if it had been handled well in a future show -
who knows...
i mean she's not THAT young -
but yeh, kinda not right given her vulnerabilities.
i don't think she's a manic depressive -
but it's very possible she carries memories "not mine" of some Alliance Officer/Parliamentarian/Blue Sun Guy...
many of whom are probably depressives!!!
sorry for such a long and probably incoherant post...
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
[BUh. River is not a manic depressive. Or a depressive at all. At least not exclusively. Her brain was messed with externally. That's got to be a bit different.
Not to mention, not all manic depressives are like River. You speak as if they all are?
I humbly offer, "Bullet in the brainpan, squish". Trust me, if ever you've experienced the horror of acute depressive behaviour, that line sums up the downside rather neatly. I don't think that how a depressive personality came to be, externally or internally, makes a whole lot of difference to such a personalilty, other than, obviously, for seeking the correct approach to curing the ailment.
Of course not all depressives are like River. Some, or most, are not quite so talented. However, it has been my experience that all are highly intelligent. You may have statistics which prove otherwise, in which case I'll defer to your expertise. I'm speaking from the humble levels of personal experiences, is all. Experiences which draw me to the characterisation of River, and all of River's talents, and all of the prices she pays for having those talents. Regardless of whether or not those talents were internally or externally induced.
I do agree with you that River was not exclusively a depressive. There was depth to that character that greatly pisses me off in light of the fact Joss lost (Fox trumped) the opportunity to expand upon them. Cuz, it ain't right to exclude folk, eh?
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Quote:Definitely threatening LOL! I agree - I think her seriousness follows from being triggered and dealing with Reaver issues. And even before that, she's come to an awareness of her situation. She knows she's a danger to the crew.
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I was referring to River being less child-like and curious and more emotionally distraught and serious (if not at times threatening)
But I don't see that translating to sexual independence. I mean, I agree that she looks pretty incredible in the first fight scene, and certainly Summer Glau and the movie crew put a great deal of effort into the sex appeal factor. But River Tam knew nothing of that. She wasn't out to be hot. For all we're shown, River's adolescent sex drive was completely shut down while she worried about more pressing things.
So, yeah, I can see the fetish thing, if that means sexualizing something which isn't inherently sexual... hmm, must go visit dictionary.com...
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Quote:To my taste... yes.
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
oh - i think it was a definite choice ... but is that like a BAD thing???
OK, insert disclaimer here: Joss made a better movie than I ever could, that's for damned sure! So I don't mean him to kick him off anyone's pedestal, but I will criticize with love, because I think he likes an audience who thinks, even if it means disagreeing...
Certainly, style choices were made for the movie. But I feel like so many of those choices were made to sell the movie to the widest possible audience (I blame the studio and the industry, not Joss!) and not to bring as much life as possible to his original vision. Sadly, a lot of what I loved about Firefly was tossed out. Even more sadly, it didn't make for a blockbuster. I think they tried to make Serenity follow the path of other sci-fi movies that have made it big, when they could have made it what Firefly was - beyond definition.
It's not just the facets of River's personality, which are beyond any manic depressive definition, or anything else we have in our pathetic Academy-free 21st century textbooks.
There's the warm lighting and quiet moments of the series that made me feel like this verse enfolded me, even when there was action or unpleasantness, it had a warm texture...When I watch the series I'm pulled into it. With the movie, I feel like I'm at a distance. Now, I know that the big screen can have intimacy and warmth and small moments (Donnie Darko?) Serenity didn't do that. The choice was made to make an action movie, and they made a damned fine one, for sure!
But I'd of preferred a drama. That's just me!
Quote:I am unsatisfied with what I read on dictionary.com. Could you describe what you mean by "fetishized"? Here's what I got:
as for the fetish - well, it's an argument in iteself as to wether a fetish is necessarily good/bad... i guess.
1. An object that is believed to have magical or spiritual powers, especially such an object associated with animistic or shamanistic religious practices.
2. An object of unreasonably excessive attention or reverence: made a fetish of punctuality.
3. Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.
4. An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation.
(Edited for clarity...)
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If we're gonna get into River's mental state, then from a psychological standpoint, she probably has undifferentiated schizophrenia (I know they say paranoid schizophrenia in the film, but she really doesn't show any instances of paranoia). The hallucinations, occasional word salads, would all point to it. Manic depressive wouldn't cover all of her symptoms. Of course, this being Hollywood, mental disorders are never portrayed with a great deal if accuracy.
I can't say River was making a conscious choice to be "sexy". With that level of instability, it would be kind of hard. I think her choice in clothing has more to do with selling a film than River behaving in a sexualized manner.
***************************************************
"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."
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