Unpopular Opinions

POSTED BY: Lexan
UPDATED: Monday, August 3, 2026 22:05
VIEWED: 61897
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IMNOTHERE

Sunday, October 28, 2007 5:27 PM

Quote:

That is what I object to, the constant glorification of war and combat. When will we get our non-combatant hero?

I think his name was Jean-Luc Picard... you know, he was on that tedious show where the ship's counsellor seemed to be the second ranking officer and where they couldn't keep a good evil adversary going for more than a couple of stories without kissing and making up. (There was a different character of the same name in some of the movies who was more of a kick-ass kinda guy).

(p.s. remember the thread title!)

The other candidate is The Doctor (from Doctor Who? but he's not actually called Doctor Who blah de blah...) who travels the universe armed with a screwdriver (a "sonic" one, too, not even a real one that you could hurt someone with). He does have his little lapses, though and is often the cause of violence in other people...

But mostly, war and combat - especially when they happen in a galaxy far, far away - make for more exciting shows. Just as long we're all sophisticated enough to understand that what makes good fantasy doesn't always make good real life.

However, I do think someone should write the imaginary novel The Dead Starship Teachers' Society - set in Heinlein's Starship Troopers universe this tells the story of a man who decides to earn the right to vote by serving as a schoolteacher (one of the options that somehow got missed out of the parody version in the film) and tries to help a class of meathead cadets bound for the mobile infantry get in touch with their sensitive side by introducing them to 20th century feminist Science Fiction.

IMNOTHERE

Sunday, October 28, 2007 5:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Too action figure like. Out of character, really; and done for marketing reasons, no doubt, so they could stick her on that Serenity poster as the bad-ass killer girl.

Worse - it made the movie poster scream BUFFY IN SPACE!!! thus potentially alienating a potential chunk of the audience who (gasp!) didn't actually like Buffy...

The poster even makes her face look more like Buffy (or perhaps Faith) than River...

CAUSAL

Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MerryK:
And Mal is macho.

You say that as if there's something wrong with that. You would perhaps prefer if Mal were more feminine?

Quote:
The non macho men are poked fun at quite regularly for their peacefulness, through Joss in self-deprecating humor or by the other characters.

To the contrary, Wash is held up as a vitally important member of the crew because of his flying ability, which gets them out of more than one scrape (beginning of Train Job, for instance). And in the pilot, both Wash, Kaylee, and Book are made the heroes for their piloting and mechanical skills, respectively--while Jayne is made to look the fool precisely because he has no non-combat skills. Inara is often looked to for her "diplomatic" ability and we admire Book precisely because of his non-violence, rather than because of it.

Quote:
Jayne is occasionally made fun of because he jumps at any opportunity to fight, and sometimes Inara or Zoe pokes fun at Mal's impulsiveness/recklessness, but the tone is always more in favor of a little recklessness rather than avoiding conflict. All the characters are portrayed in a more admirable light when they pick up arms, whether in lighting, framing, or music. And your point about Zoe? Just adds to my point...why do we look up to her more than Kaylee, who has equal if not more talents, but in a peaceful area? Because Zoe is a soldier, and that is who the show portrays as admirable. That is what I object to, the constant glorification of war and combat. When will we get our non-combatant hero?

Wash, saving the day by outflying the Reavers, and Kaylee by rigging up the engines for a Crazy Ivan.

Simon for his constant, no-matter-what care of River.

Inara for more-than-once smoothing things over or getting the crew out of a jam (e.g. rescuing Mal and Zoe--your tough warrior types--when they get pinched by the sheriff in Train Job).

Book, a hero (in my mind) for his refusal to allow Jayne to summarily execute Dobson.

Let's not forget that River tricked Early, instead of whomping his ass in OiS.

Is that enough non-violent heroics? If not, I guess I could mention Simon's willingness to burn at the stake with his sister.

And as far as the only moments of heroic cinematography, let's not forget Kaylee's grand entrance to the ball on Persephone in Shindig. She's even a step above Mal in the frame, attention clearly on her in all her feminine glory, and she gets an absolutely gorgeous musical cue. And then it's Mal that goes and ruins everything by being violent (and Kaylee says as much).

And does not the show portray Inara as admirable? That scene in the pilot (the infamous sponge-bathing scene) portrays her not as weak and ineffectual but as sensuous and beautiful (and, I suppose, powerful in her own way).

Quote:
Oh, and I never said that the women were shrinking violets...when I said macho men, I was comparing Mal to Wash and Simon, not the women at all. "Macho people as heroes" would have been a more accurate representation of my opinion.

And yet the non-"macho" people get to plenty of great, heroic stuff (as enumerated above). Is there gun-play and fisticuffs aplenty in Firefly? You bet! It is, after all, Mal's show, and that's more or less the world he inhabits. But there's also lots of tender moments, too, times when people are held up for admiration for other-than-violent acts. To my mind, Out of Gas is the best example of this. Only really one violent scene (if I recall correctly) and Mal's on the receiving end. And what's held up as admirable consistently throughout the episode is the familial bond between the crew. We admire Mal not for his proficiency in battle, but for his care for the crew and his determination to fix his boat. We admire Wash for rigging up the emergency button and for his boosting the distress call through the nav signal. We sympathize we Kaylee in her inability to fix her girl.

Forgive me if I

CAUSAL

Sunday, October 28, 2007 7:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ImNotHere:
However, I do think someone should write the imaginary novel The Dead Starship Teachers' Society - set in Heinlein's Starship Troopers universe this tells the story of a man who decides to earn the right to vote by serving as a schoolteacher...and tries to help a class of meathead cadets bound for the mobile infantry get in touch with their sensitive side by introducing them to 20th century feminist Science Fiction.

Heh.

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NBZ

Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:03 PM

+1 Totally agree with Causal.

We have had plenty of lobotomised scifi in the past.

All the BDH play important roles. And it is forgotten where Mal has been the butt of a few jokes too for his macho-ness. (HoG - immediately thinking it is him people want to get help from. Jaynestown - Mal is not the Hero. See the Inara and Fezz scene.)

On the other hand if he was one of those who took his time to consider all angles, he would probably not got to the series.

I can understand the dislike of both OMR and OoG if Mal is not to the liking of the viewer - both episodes are about him. I absolutely loved OoG, and to a lesser extent OMR.

One thing that does surprise me though is that "Bushwacked" is statistically the least favourite episode among people. I personally rank it very highly.

(For bottom rung I would have a fight out between The Train Job and Heart of Gold. I think Hog would go on the bottom rung.)

MERRYK

Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:05 PM

It does come down to interpretation, and what you want to see, probably. I'm always looking for noncombatants as the main character, or most admirable, and didn't find that in Firefly. Yes, others are held as admirable, though I disagree that we like Book because he is peaceful...his "best" parts, or so I can tell from most of the fans I hear from, are the "fuzzy on kneecaps" type ones. Yes, we respect the others for their noncombatant skills...but not as much as we are supposed to respect Mal. Perhaps you can explain why, if noncombatants are held as just as honorable as combatants, we root for Mal and not Simon? Look at how small, comparatively, the Simon fangroup is compared to Mal's, or Wash's compared to Jayne's. Though there is a little balance, it's still the "manly" men who are painted as the most heroic. Mal is the typical macho hero: handsome, strong, stubborn, and a good shot. He gets to punch people and shoot without question and kick enemies into engines...and we're supposed to think that's ok. You bringing up Picard proves that most people think peaceful people can't be interesting or effective. I think that's a fault with television and writers, not the genre or real life.

But hey, this is the unpopular opinions thread, and I guess that thinking that Firefly glorifies the macho is unpopular.

--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown

NBZ

Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:12 PM

I don't think we are supposed to "respect" Mal. It is not that type of show to me.

The thing that can be respected about Mal is that he is a jack in a box - no matter how hard you knock him down, he will always bounce back. hence the torture he always has to go through just to get a glass of milk.

(I think Joss has gathered a lot of sadist fans and thrown them all on this one character.)

WYTCHCROFT

Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
Mal is a jack in a box - no matter how hard you knock him down, he will always bounce back. hence the torture he always has to go through just to get a glass of milk.

LOL!:)

CHRISISALL

Sunday, October 28, 2007 9:10 PM

My unpopular opinion: I like the BDM as much as I like Objects In Space.
There, I said it.

*shields up* Chrisisall

OUT2THEBLACK

Monday, October 29, 2007 7:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by psychotic:
Is Heart of Gold really that unpopular? Mal/Inara is my favorite ship in the series and seeing the tension between them is awesome. There's so much that they say to each other without saying words.

And you gotta love the baby dummy that Rance carried. Priceless!

...And finding out "who the baby-dummy daddy is"

was important ! HoG and War Stories both have

some flaws , but they were still Firefly , and

they're still better than 99.95% of everything

else in series television...

I love the BDM...if you understand how

difficult Joss' job was , he delivered as great

a film as could have been made ; from script to

screen , it's a very distilled and nuanced

reflection of the Firefly series...We're

privileged and fortunate to have it...

YMMV , of

course...

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