What weapons did the cap ship fire?

POSTED BY: Juggernaut
UPDATED: Thursday, December 19, 2002 21:41
VIEWED: 9698
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TRAGICSTORY

Saturday, October 12, 2002 9:03 PM

Loonytoon,

Yes, there are many types of ammunition for a tank. Well, actually there are only two. KET and HEAT. KET (Kenetic Energy Transfer) relys on kenetic energy to puncture a hull,(think railgun) HEAT (High Energy Anti-Tank) relys on impact detonated explosives (think sticky c-4)

Now take a spaceship, it is intented to travel through space, where debris flys around at incredible speeds and not get destroyed. So being able to withstand a fist sized piece of iron ore going at incredibly high speed crashing into you is a must. The KET (railgun) idea would not work because space travel would have had to work around it since there are things flying through space at incredible speeds all the time.

So what chance would a missle have being fired at close quarters? It would never build up the kenetic energy needed to puncture the hull to mix with the oxygen to ignite. No oxygen, no explosion.

As for a nuclear warhead, A. It doesn't look like a nuclear warhead from the screenshots, B. A nuclear warhead would have to be detonated on contact with the hull, in which case the explosion would be prior to the ship and not in the ship itself. If that were the case, it woud be a nuclear explosion in space. Here is CalTech's answer to what would happen.

http://spider.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/waw/mad/mad12.html

In short, a nuclear exlosion in space at that distance would vaporize the ship and not have an explosion.

So what you would need would be a non explosive, penetrating weapon. Hence, plasma.

Imagine two peices of coal, one cold, one glowing red hot, both are dropped on top of a tub of butter. One will hit the bottom, the other will not.

Now imagine that the bottom half of the tub of butter is gasoline. Get the idea?

What is seen in the screenshots? A plasma ball melts it's way into the ship, ignites combustible materials in an oxygen rich enviornment, and procedes to melt it's way through the other side.

I hope that makes my argument clearer.

Now why would plasma be inefficient? Plasma contains high amounts of energy, can be made and controlled and does not require oxygen. So why would it not work?

TRAGICSTORY

Saturday, October 12, 2002 9:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Thegn:
Actually, no oxygen would be needed for a conventional warhead to explode in space. A conventional warhead doesn't use ambient air to explode. Explosives of that intensity use internal oxidizers.

By conventional warhead are we talking bout nuclear or chemical expolsives?

THEGN

Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:18 PM

Chemical.

Usually the term conventional when applied to warheads is used to mean a chemical explosive.

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In the Dark Ages, Romano-Celtic Britannia was over-run by Viking-like cultures collectively called the Anglo-Saxons. They were led by warlords called Drytinns, and the greatest warriors among them were the Thegns.

TINYTIMM

Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TragicStory:
I'm not sure how a conventional missle would actually detonate in space against the hull .(no air,no explosion)

Don't bet on that. The US has been using explosives in space craft for a long time. Explosive bolts to separate stages, etc. The question is what makes a good anti-ship missile in space? Keep in mind, movement of air even at 15 psi is not instantaneous. Firefly class vessels can have a good size hole and still have time to get to suits. Explosives bring the oxidizer with them. It's the only way to support the supersonic wave front.
On the other tentacle, the fuel-air explosive brings little oxidizer. It literally mixes fuel with the local atmosphere and detonates it. This makes the effective size of the explosive charge tremendous.

Jeff
Who notes a space ship is just full of explosive compounds and combinations.

TINYTIMM

Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Thegn:
... the plume from a missile during boost-phase looks like a round ball of flame if the boost is hot enough and far enough away. The green color, however, is not indicative of missile exhaust.

Perhaps like French capital ships c. 1935-1941 they are coloring the plume for tracing perposes. Jamming could make computer aided optic tracking popular.

Jeff
Who notes the French invented the bayonet, amoung other things.

TINYTIMM

Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TragicStory:
Loonytoon,Yes, there are many types of ammunition for a tank. Well, actually there are only two. KET and HEAT. KET (Kenetic Energy Transfer) relys on kenetic energy to puncture a hull,(think railgun) HEAT (High Energy Anti-Tank) relys on impact detonated explosives (think sticky c-4)

I'm afraid not. APDS in it's variants, Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot, a long penetrator hitting at a velocity around a mile a second, you call it KET. HEAT, is in US Forces, High Explosive Anti-tank. This uses a shaped charge to accelerate metal into a penetrator close against the armor. What you are thinking of is called HEP in US Forces and HESH in UK Forces. Hight Explosive Plastic. The think metal shell holds plastic explosive. It hits the target spreads on the surface and is detonated from the base of the projectile. Ideally the result is spalling, metal flakes coming off the inside of the cast tank turret at supersonic speeds. Imagine occupying a small space with a lot of razor blade scraps. Tanks, depending on service, caliber etc. can also fire A-PERS, Anti-personnel, think of a 105mm (4 inch) shotgun round. and Flame rounds. The flame round scatters self igniting aluminum compounds on the target.

Jeff
Who knows the infantry have can openers of an explosive nature as a counter to armor.

TRAGICSTORY

Saturday, October 12, 2002 11:03 PM

So trying to steer the thread back on track... WHAT TYPE OF WEAPON WAS FIRED?

I still say plasma. Any reason it couldn't be?

But I do bow down to the explosive knowledge of others... If I ever need something demolished I now know who to ask!

Side note... could you heat up air enough for it to break down into it's basic elements and combust? Like water in to H and O.

Who now knows that Jeff is much more knowledgeable than I am.

THEGN

Sunday, October 13, 2002 1:14 AM

Actually there are a lot of reasons why plasma wouldn't be the simplest option.

For instance, plasma isn't easy to control as it seems to be thought. You can confine it with magnetic fields, but once you release it as a ball of green fire there's no reason it will remain a ball of green fire. In fact, it will dissipate very quickly. Secondly, if it strikes a target, there is no reason it will be localized enough to burn a hole through the haul. In reality it may just flow around the haul as it dissipates and vanishes. In other words, unless you were standing right in front of the gun it might be somewhat harmless.

This notion that it is a ball of plasma carries with it some assumptions which are bit far fetched. It is not the simpler theory.

Air is largely composed of elements, so no, you can't break it down into elements that will combust like water. It's primarily Oxygen and Nitrogen, both of with are diatomic elements.

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In the Dark Ages, Romano-Celtic Britannia was over-run by Viking-like cultures collectively called the Anglo-Saxons. They were led by warlords called Drytinns, and the greatest warriors among them were the Thegns.

LOONYTOON

Sunday, October 13, 2002 6:45 PM

Okay, did I miss the requirement to have a Phd to sign up?

TRAGICSTORY

Sunday, October 13, 2002 6:59 PM

New theory!

Acid!

HA! For my argument I will use the opening of the pilot episode where acid, and not explosives or "plasma" was used to open a sealed spaceship! and it's green in the screen shots cuz.... it was St. Patricks day.... yeah, that's it!

Tragic Story

Maybe it was "Plasma Acid" I could market it as Plasma A.C. It would have the nostalga of Pepcid A.C., but with modern 2500 AD aplications! Mwa ha ha.... I'll make millions!

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