Zoe
POSTED BY: wytchcroft
UPDATED: Saturday, October 13, 2007 18:09
VIEWED: 5243
PAGE 2 of 2
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
And I don't think all his positive traits completely died.
no you're right - it is possible to overstate the case... if everything positive had been lost he would be... i dunno, Jubal Early? or just some makeweight in the Alliance? Or just a very happless criminal - LOL!
but he has lacks, issues and failings enough to keep him interesting... and i would agree with Nathan F that the crew provide aspects of himself he... ok, maybe not lost but... was in danger of losing.
Quote:
She has no doubt that he's good man. He'll come through in the end, when it's important, because he's got that core of the man he used to be.
yes - i can imagine she understands that better than mal himself... sometimes his self conscious hardening reads like a case of 'methinks he doth protest too much' which must frustrate zoe a bit.
Quote:
If such a view is plausible then it holds that Zoe is clinging to the past somewhat.
Quote:
Hmm. I don't see her as clinging to the past as much as informed by it. And I don't see her as still living in the war as much as just having an inherently military manner and thought process because that's how she was raised.
i think she probably also just chose the path of least resistance just carried on with Mal and never looked back - interesting how such a thing might actually drag the past along with it. She may not have stood still long enough to make cold decisions... but if she did - she was obviously on the side of the Independents more passionately than is sometimes made out.
i mean, for example - it's hard to imagine that an officer of her caliber was never wanted by the Alliance for their own ranks... THAT might make a fic!
As for how she was raised - well, military yes... and - lord help me... i'm gonna try and explore that a little meself.
gulp!
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
nice post Agent:)
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Quote:Much agreement here!
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
but he has lacks, issues and failings enough to keep him interesting... and i would agree with Nathan F that the crew provide aspects of himself he... ok, maybe not lost but... was in danger of losing.
Quote:hmm... very interesting indeed! I don't see the Alliance as ever trusting an Independent enough to recruit her, but the idea of her being offered a place there... could be fun, just to explore her attitude toward them.
i mean, for example - it's hard to imagine that an officer of her caliber was never wanted by the Alliance for their own ranks... THAT might make a fic!
Quote:Thanks Asarian!
Originally posted by asarian:
Very good observations. I don't disagree on any particular point.
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Zoe is a complicated person. I would imagine that the war changed her, and she had to adapt and go on. Mal's leadership & friendship gave her a path out.
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Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
nice post Agent:)
Umm, thanks? You certainly all took it and ran with it! Whee! ^_^
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Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:Quote:
If such a view is plausible then it holds that Zoe is clinging to the past somewhat.Quote:
Hmm. I don't see her as clinging to the past as much as informed by it. And I don't see her as still living in the war as much as just having an inherently military manner and thought process because that's how she was raised.
i think she probably also just chose the path of least resistance just carried on with Mal and never looked back - interesting how such a thing might actually drag the past along with it.
Very good point about Zoe!
That's sort of what, to me, shows that Zoe did less in terms of moving on than Mal did.
Mal may have chosen a shrine to Serenity Valley, but it included a plan, which then brought on the people that made Serenity an actual home and an actual thing worth living for. (Not the ship, the crew, always the crew.)
And it was a choice he made for himself.
Zoe's only real choice to make a change was Wash, and it wasn't really such a big change, at all. Hell, she's talking babies and isn't even willing to make a real change in her life for that.
She's stuck in this way of life and I don't think it's because it's really home to her.
Zoe doesn't like making decisions, she doesn't like change and she doesn't like conflict. She's somewhat rigidly stuck in a position, which suggests to me that she is just as deeply and traumatizingly damaged by the war as Mal is, just in a different way. Afraid of committing to something because it could be taken away.
Losing Wash, for all the terrible pain, might actually help her because.. it actually happened. And no amount of not committing prevented it from hurting, and she is still walking, even without having to focus on babysitting Mal, as she probably did after the war.
Um. End ramble.
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So funny that you're discussing Zoe, as I am just rewathcing Firefly these days paying special attention to her. Everytime I discuss Firefly with my fellow Browncoats she has a tendency to get left out. Like there is nothing special about her. Which was weird, as I love all the characters for different reasons. And I am just realising that it would not be the same without her. Mal might be the leader, as such, but Zoe by following him tells us that there is more to him. She makes him likeable, like she's his conscience. Joss does this elegantly to add layers to the bitter Mal (it works, but I did not know it was intentional untill I read the companions). Of course when you have watched it all trough, I think we would all follow Mal (t least I would). And while the rest of the crew had different reasons for joining (money/job etc) we do not know why Zoe followed Mal after the war. But I agree with you guys that she is the only on who truly knows him and therefore is the only one who made it her decision to stay with him. Maybe even she is the one taking care of him as he seems more emotionally scarred than her (her being able to love and marry Wash).
I also noticed something in Out of gas, where Kaylee says; "She is not moving" while looking at Zoe laying in the infirmary, followed by "Serenity is not moving", because at the end of Serenity (BDM) Zoe says; "She's tore up plenty but she'll fly true" which Gina of course interpreted as being about Zoe (Joss did not write it as that). And maybe Zoe is to Mal what Serenity is to the crew. If that makes any sense at all.
All I know is, Mal might be my favourite character, but I would like to be Zoe.
"You're my kind of stupid"
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this has really been a helpful thread:)
thanks shiny posters!
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