Ramblings on Serenity

POSTED BY: Trickster
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 19:03
VIEWED: 19131
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AVALON

Friday, October 11, 2002 9:01 PM

LT -- please. Please, please, please chill out. You know, the ladies were just having a bit of fun. And while there's also nothing wrong with letting people know that you don't care for it -- you're entitled to your opinion, too -- we've all been asked to be civil to one another here. CIVIL. That doesn't mean describing others you disagree with as driving a "nazimobile", for pete's sakes! Your abrasiveness doesn't help your position at all. You seem to want people to respect your opinion and accept it, but nobody likes to be beat over the head with such things. You don't earn respect when you don't give it to others.

RHEA

Friday, October 11, 2002 9:04 PM

^Gay people should be what - seen and not heard? Not seen and not heard?

Get a grip! If you don't want to participate in a conversation that offends your delicate sensibilities you can ignore it.

But attacking people for being who they are and proud of it is uncool at best.

PANDORA

Saturday, October 12, 2002 1:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by loonytoon:
I DON`T care who you screw, but wanting to make half of fireflys crew queer is insulting to many people, and heterosexuals that disapprove of homosexuals far outnumber the gays and there supporters, however in the spirit of political correctness they must appeal to the minority, the majority be damned. THAT is what pisses me off. I don`t care if you are gay, just don`t flaunt it.

1. In what way is making half the crew of Firefly queer insulting to anyone? (Nevermind the fact that I don't think anyone has even mentioned more than one couple at a time, not that it matters.)

2. Anti-gay heterosexuals outnumbering gays, allies, and people who believe in living and let live may be an issue where you're from, but around here, it's not. Please remember that the Internet is a worldwide community, and in most urban areas, homosexuality is an accepted fact of life, to the point where even the people who don't approve of it aren't abrasive and rude and hurtful about it. I assure you that where I'm from, you would be the one looked at as anywhere ranging from strange to socially deranged for expressing your thoughts the way in which you have.

As far as tyranny of the minority, I'm not prepared to get into a debate about a person's liberty to live his or her life as he or she sees fit, and what other people think be damned. I am, however, a little unclear on why you think it appropriate to spew hateful and angry speech on what other people do and how they do it, when you think that the people about whom you're speaking should hide their lifestyles from your innocent eyes.

I get really angry when people tell me not to flaunt my lifestyle, because usually it's coming from people who will make a comment about a girl's ass far more quickly than I will, or who'll more than likely flaunt THEIR lifestyle, usually one of conservative heterosexism, and they think I should just deal with it, though what they do is probably far more hurtful to me than me kissing my girlfriend on the street is to them.

Irony is interesting.

Pandora
P.S.: Hi Rhea! Nice to see you 'round these parts!

"Computer games don't affect kids negatively; I mean if Pac-Man affected us
as kids, we'd all be running around darkened rooms, munching magic pills and
listening to repetitive electronic music."
-Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc.
1988

THEGN

Saturday, October 12, 2002 3:54 PM

I don't have any problem with homosexuals, but half the crew being gay is sort of stupid. Almost all independent studies show that homosexuals represent less then 2% of the population. Some studies done by groups representing homosexuals give a higher percentage, but even their numbers are well below 10% of the population.

One person who is gay on the ship is fine, but having half the crew is so nonrepresentative of the viewership that it's just ridiculous.

I think it would be interesting if someone on the crew was openly gay. It would add a whole new arena of drama, just like it did in Buffy, but let's not go overboard.

-----------
In the Dark Ages, Romano-Celtic Britannia was over-run by Viking-like cultures collectively called the Anglo-Saxons. They were led by warlords called Drytinns, and the greatest warriors among them were the Thegns.

LOONYTOON

Saturday, October 12, 2002 7:40 PM

For one, I am not the type to comment on a girls ass, good looking, or no. However, whether gays like it or not, homosexuals are involved in more sex crimes than heterosexuals. %87 percent of molested children are molested by the same sex, coming from %2 of the population! What does that say about the wonderful gays? And I do know some gays, but they respect my views and don`t talk about it in front of me. As for heterosexuals not talking about there sexual preferences, %98 percent of the population is straight. Maybe %20-40 thinks homosexuality is deviant. Maybe %.5-1 think heterosexuality is deviant. There is a BIG difference there. And how can being straight be disgusting for you? If it weren`t for hetero sex, you wouldn`t be here now, and many gays want children, so how can they be objected to straight sex? Get your sex crime rate down to the same level per capita as heterosexuals, and I might stop regarding you as wrong.

As for on the show, one person might be gay, but even one couple would be more gays than you would expect to see. Maybe have one of them run into a former "significant other" on a planet, but having two people on the crew is a little excessive.

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND

Saturday, October 12, 2002 9:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Thegn:
I don't have any problem with homosexuals, but half the crew being gay is sort of stupid. Almost all independent studies show that homosexuals represent less then 2% of the population. Some studies done by groups representing homosexuals give a higher percentage, but even their numbers are well below 10% of the population.

Thegn! I never said it was realistic. Just fun.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

PANDORA

Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Thegn:

One person who is gay on the ship is fine, but having half the crew is so nonrepresentative of the viewership that it's just ridiculous.

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting that half the crew be gay, least of all me. That hyperbolic statement was first coined by Loonytoon in this discussion, I believe.

Pandora

"Computer games don't affect kids negatively; I mean if Pac-Man affected us
as kids, we'd all be running around darkened rooms, munching magic pills and
listening to repetitive electronic music."
-Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc.
1988

THEGN

Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:11 PM

oh.

My bad.

-----------
In the Dark Ages, Romano-Celtic Britannia was over-run by Viking-like cultures collectively called the Anglo-Saxons. They were led by warlords called Drytinns, and the greatest warriors among them were the Thegns.

PANDORA

Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by loonytoon:
For one, I am not the type to comment on a girls ass, good looking, or no. However, whether gays like it or not, homosexuals are involved in more sex crimes than heterosexuals. %87 percent of molested children are molested by the same sex, coming from %2 of the population!
What does that say about the wonderful gays?

I'd like to know exactly where you got your statistics for that, because last time I checked, the majority of child molestation tends to occur between men and children of both genders, although women have been known to abuse children as well. Not that I'm relishing starting up the 'gays are child molesters' topic, but I really doubt the validity of the numbers you've given.

Quote:

And I do know some gays, but they respect my views and don`t talk about it in front of me.

Well bully for you. I wouldn't either, if I were them - but if I were them, I wouldn't be able to interact on a social level with someone who thought that there was something digusting or wrong with the way I live my life.

Quote:
As for heterosexuals not talking about there sexual preferences,

Did you even read my post besides the parts that you decided to get offended by? I was not referring to being disgusted by heterosexuals or their preferences - I like men as well as women, I personally don't give a flying rat's arse who does what with whom where, unless it involves me directly. My point with heterosexuals (or, as I specifically stated in my original post, anti-gay heterosexuals) is that flaunting a lifestyle, i.e., hating homosexuals overtly by decrying their lifestyles and discriminating against them, is far more harmful to homo- and bisexuals than seeing two men kiss is harmful to heterosexuals. Capice?

Quote:

Get your sex crime rate down to the same level per capita as heterosexuals, and I might stop regarding you as wrong.

You get your sex crime rate down - as I recall, the VAST majority of sex offenders are heterosexual males. Heterosexual men are responsible for more rapes, murders, sexual harassment, sexual assault, and aggravated assault than any other demographic on earth. Does that mean that I should hate all heterosexual men, or as you say, regard them as wrong? Certainly not. In fact, I happen to love heterosexual men. With a few notable exceptions.

Quote:

As for on the show, one person might be gay, but even one couple would be more gays than you would expect to see. Maybe have one of them run into a former "significant other" on a planet, but having two people on the crew is a little excessive.

I think the most ironic thing about this last bit is that I agree with it.

Pandora
Put the haterade back in the fridge.

"Computer games don't affect kids negatively; I mean if Pac-Man affected us
as kids, we'd all be running around darkened rooms, munching magic pills and
listening to repetitive electronic music."
-Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc.
1988

SHUGGIE

Sunday, October 13, 2002 2:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pandora:
Quote:
Originally posted by loonytoon:
For one, I am not the type to comment on a girls ass, good looking, or no. However, whether gays like it or not, homosexuals are involved in more sex crimes than heterosexuals. %87 percent of molested children are molested by the same sex, coming from %2 of the population!
What does that say about the wonderful gays?

I'd like to know exactly where you got your statistics for that, because last time I checked, the majority of child molestation tends to occur between men and children of both genders, although women have been known to abuse children as well. Not that I'm relishing starting up the 'gays are child molesters' topic, but I really doubt the validity of the numbers you've given.

The 87% stat in particular sounded a little fishy so I did a little searching. I wasn't able to find a direct figures on same-sex abuse but I did find out that -

89% of victims were abused by a male.

(Source: http://www.calib.com/nccanch/pubs/statinfo/nis3.cfm#perpetrator
see "Distribution of Child Abuse and Neglect by Perpetrator Characteristics"
5th paragraph)

So if 87% of abuse takes place between victims/perpetrators of the same sex and 89% of victims are abused by men it follows that there are many more male victims than female ones. However this is directly the opposite of the truth.

There are about 4 times as many female victims of sexual abuse as there are male.

(Source: http://www.calib.com/nccanch/pubs/factsheets/canstats.cfm
see "Victims of Maltreatment" 4th para)

So not only is this 87% figure incorrect it gives the exact opposite impression - the fact is that the vast majority of cases of sexual abuse are not same-sex, the vast majority are male perpetrators with female victims.

Whatever the figures it's very dubious to infer a person's sexuality from a sex-crime. It's even more dubious to then make inferences about that sexuality as a whole. For example there are some stats that show certain types of non-sexual child abuse are much more often committed by the child's parents. Does that mean that it's *because* they're a parent they commit these crimes? Should we "regard as wrong" parents in general? Of course not. What those figures show is that parents often have more access to the children and so if they are predisposed to abuse then they have more opportunity.

Shug

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