Evils of the World

POSTED BY: theheroofcanton
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:57
VIEWED: 16503
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LEMAT

Saturday, April 10, 2004 7:11 AM

Crap, forgot to say who was evil. Yup, theheroofcanton, FOX and Saddam are pretty bad.

You know else is evil? Anyone not loving my Houston Astros.

Go America; go 'Stros.

Jon

SIGMANUNKI

Saturday, April 10, 2004 6:15 PM

Since this misunderstanding has happened (at least to me) above I'll say this. Please read this with the voice in your head *not* angry. I have no intention of being aggressive here. Just thought I'd throw that out there

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
Bush is not Hitler, and Saddam very nearly was.

I have no idea where you are coming from here. The only things that I know that Saddam did are to his own people (and the last incident was in 1988 I believe) and when he tried to annex Kuwait. Other than that I'd like to hear some justification that Saddam was nearly Hitler. After all, Hitler tried to take over Europe and the world, where as Saddam seemed quite content running his little world.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
b) the weapons may have existed some time ago, but not during the war or the build-up for war; or c) we were told a bald-faced lie. I tend to lean to B personally,...

I concur, partially. I agree with B. After all the US (and other countries too I believe) sold him the stuff to make or just the chemical weapons outright. But, I must say that I think C has been proven. After all, the biggest point that the Bush admin made for war was WMD and they said that they had proof. Proof means that they can show us the WMD and they didn't... still haven't.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
This, plus the fact that alot of the world either hates us, fears us, or distrust us because of the war (well, some people already hated/feared us, but the numbers certianly have increased),

Correction, alot of the world didn't like the US prior to anything to do with the war, and that number has increased and made that dislike far more intense. (Note: I'm using US in the country sense, not necessarily any one person in it.)

The one thing that this has really done for me is to bring to light what you guys down there are feed through your so called news stations. I really feel sorry for you guys (no I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm serious).

I lived in the Bay Area during the build up to and the war and was horrified at such blatant pro-US propaganda that the Americans were feed (and I still am today). I was forced to get my news on-line or through the parental units on the phone to get anything reasonable. For those who care I found the BBC the most balanced and informative.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
On that note, the men and women of out armed forces are out there risking their lives in Iraq because of administration policy.

Excellent point.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
That does not mean that we should just blindly accept what he (or any other president or offical for that matter) says at face value.

Again, excellent point. Thinking is up to the individual and if people stop doing it we are all in a heap of trouble. I'd like to point out that people stopping thinking *is* happening. And although I know that the US is at least leading Canada in this area we as a world body are going in this direction. I say this because of certain high school policies that have been brought to my attention.

Basically, if we don't expect our kids to learn they won't and without learning they cannot think logically and without that we end up is said big heap of trouble.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
We need to judge our political circumstances for ourselves, skeptically, but not cynically.

I disagree. I do think that we should judge cynically. After all, politicians are typically slimy bastards that cannot be trusted. Cynicism could save us.

----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River

APEMAN61

Saturday, April 10, 2004 7:20 PM

No offense but how about we let americans worry about american politics...oh and dont feel sorry for me. Oh and this thing is just going to keep going, everyone has there own opinions. people are just going to say stuff back and forth and nothing will come of it except people getting offended, even if it's not the intended goal.

LEMAT

Saturday, April 10, 2004 9:39 PM

Cynicism could destroy us, too. Not all politicians are evil scum bags, just enough of them to make the voting public not trust any politicians. (BTW, I ain't saying that politicians as a group are saints, just not evil scum bags.) Cynisism could cause people to desire an abandonment of politics altogether, opening the door for populist leaders who will attempt to become the center of political power.

The American media worries too much about two things: one, getting stories that sell, and two, not pissing off the public. Americans fear criticising, even constructivly criticizing, the policies of a sitting president in time of percived crisis. People sat through 50 years of Cold War, thinking that the nation had to put up a united front against communism, and that dissenters were contributing to the New World Communist Order, or some such. This fear of not being unified on national defense issues has lead to a fear of dissent, (a fear that manifests itself in the media) and the reluctance of Congress to be proactive in reigning in the executive.

Your right, Saddam was not Hitler. I only used Hitler because he was mentioned in relation to Bush by others. No, Saddam was much more like Stalin. He is reported to have been an admirer of Stalin's, and like Ole' Joe, he did not try to conquer the whole region, just some (well in Stalin's case, most) of his neighbors. He reigned terror down upon the populace and his military and civil service. He conducted purges, he killed liberal activists, ethnic activists, and a whole bunch of people who never did him any harm. He was still a very, very, bad man, and one of the few good things to come out of this war was his removal from power, which we might have had to do at some point anyway.

Jon

SIGMANUNKI

Sunday, April 11, 2004 12:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by APEMAN61:
No offense but how about we let americans worry about american politics...

The problem with that is that American politics are starting to affect the world body. Perhaps the US should start listening to, if not to the world, to its' own populace.

Quote:
Originally posted by APEMAN61:
...nothing will come of it except people getting offended, even if it's not the intended goal.

The only people that will become offended are those that cannot even attempt to see the others point of view. Those that can won't become offended until an insult is sent there way. Which won't happen if we all remain civil

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
Cynicism could destroy us, too.

True, but what I meant was that a balance would be most beneficial.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
opening the door for populist leaders who will attempt to become the center of political power.

Isn't GW trying to do that now. It just seems to me that he is and has *really* thrown his weight around. Fortunately, the rest of the world isn't buying it.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
The American media worries too much about two things: one, getting stories that sell,

True

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
and two, not pissing off the public.

Too much so, all I see on CNN and what not is pro-American propaganda. So much so, that once someone looks into things, they find out that so much of the info has been left out of the story, that it basically becomes a lie. But, technically not. Kind of a very dangerous half-truth.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
Americans fear criticising, even constructivly criticizing, the policies of a sitting president in time of percived crisis.

And GW and his cronies have promoted this.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
People sat through 50 years of Cold War, thinking that the nation had to put up a united front against communism, and that dissenters were contributing to the New World Communist Order,...

Now this is something that should be fought. Freedom of speech is something that the US has put out the world that they stand for and criticism is part of that. Someone put forth a mention of anti-Americanism. *This* is anti-Americanism.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
He conducted purges, he killed liberal activists, ethnic activists, and a whole bunch of people who never did him any harm. He was still a very, very, bad man, and one of the few good things to come out of this war was his removal from power, which we might have had to do at some point anyway.

Well, we agree that he did these bad things. And I definitely agree that he should have been removed from power, but, *not this way*. Yes, he is gone, but, since no-one has been put in power and the US is using an iron fist to try to keep the peace, everything is going to hell in a hand-basket.

This next little while will be interesting to watch, eh?

----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River

AURAPTOR

Sunday, April 11, 2004 1:52 AM

Thats about the mindless and idiotic thing I think I've ever seen on this thread. Congrats.

Unless you think FDR was more evil than Hitler...oh, of course not. FDR was a Democrat...riiiiiight.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. Worked that out myself. "

LEMAT

Sunday, April 11, 2004 2:51 AM

Huh?

Who are you responding to, AUraptor? I typed FDR into 'find' on my browser, and your post was the only one that mentions him.

Jon

LTNOWIS

Sunday, April 11, 2004 3:19 AM

Damn, I knew I should've gone on yesterday. Then I wouldn't be so late to this board.

Quote:
I'm surprised that anyone who likes Firefly would dislike George Bush so much as those responding to the 'who is the most evil' question.

I hated Bush since around April 2000, based on intuition. Now I actually have a reason. Mainly, I'm against deficits, because people my age are going to be the one's paying for them. (I'm 14.) I'm also against the gay marriage ban. Even though I think homosexuality is a small sin, it doesn't hurt anyone, and should be legal. And then there's the 600-some Americans who came home from Iraq in flag-draped coffins. I don't think the Iraq war was a good idea, and Bush certainly isn't handling it well.

On the other hand, I'm in favor of the invasion of Afganistan and the Moon base, and I dislike Kerry.

Anyways, Bush probably isn't too evil, just wrong about lot's of things.
Bin Ladin: very evil
Hussein: incredibly evil
Al quada: all evil/brainwashed
Iraqi insurgents: I'd probably do the same in their position.
Edited to correct font

LTNOWIS

Sunday, April 11, 2004 3:39 AM

Quote:
You may not agree with his ideas, but at least he has them and sticks to them.

I never understood the problem people have with so-called waffling. The way I see it, it takes a mature person to change their minds about something upon further contemplation, or new info. Bush could've said "I was wrong about the WMDs," but he never did. That said, Kerry isn't really changing his position on gay marriage, he's simply not expressing a firm one, for political reasons. (That's bad.)

Quote:
It drives me insane when people compare bush to saddam. Did Bush have a damn torture center inside our Olympic headquarters? Does Bush use virtually all the country's money to build palaces for himself? does bush murder his own people?

That was Saddam's sadist son Uday, not him or his non-sadist son/ no, but those are some mighty big deficits/ if he did, we wouldn't know. But yeah, Saddam's evil is infinitely greater than Bush's.

LTNOWIS

Sunday, April 11, 2004 4:42 AM

Quote:
The article was basically trying to draw comparisons between Nazi Germany and the Bush Administration, which is not only hackneyed but also ridiculous.

I gotta disagree with you there. While it would be ridiculous to say that Bush is similar to the Nazis, it's perfectly ok to "draw comparisions." I could draw comparisions between Jesus and Hitler: They both had strong feelings about Jews, they both were historically important, etc. It's like when someone on another board said that evolution was bad because Hitler believed in it, and someone said he also probably liked chocolate. Just because you can compare Bush and Hitler, it doesn't mean the German guy should freak out.

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