'You're Welcome' is a HORRIBLE episode!!! (spoilerish)

POSTED BY: jwhedonaddict
UPDATED: Friday, October 19, 2007 04:58
VIEWED: 6505
PAGE 1 of 3

1 2 3 NEXT PAGE

JWHEDONADDICT

Monday, October 8, 2007 5:17 PM

Now that I've got your attention () let me explain.

What I meant by "horrible" is that it truly pisses me off that--how many years later?--it still brings me to tears as much as it did the first time.

I actually love the episode...just hate what happened at the end and that I still spend the first 40 minutes crying (the hugs w/Angel and Wes, then the rest of the gang, researching w/Wes again, the realization that everything went to hell BECAUSE she was gone, the "first soldier down" video, etc.), because I know what it's leading up to. Seriously, I think Joss owes me a lifetime supply of Kleenex for this one (even though he didn't write it, I still completely blame him for the outcome).

Aaah!!! It's been said that the ep. is basically a love letter to Cordelia. I completely agree with that, and I'm on board with it because she deserved it.

I never expected to love this character as much as I do, and I just still wish it could've ended some other way.

Thanks for allowing me to vent.

***********************************************
Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned.--Ron Glass

"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?"--Angel

"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya

"All I had to do is want it bad enough...and guess what I want to do now, you prissy son of a bitch?"--Spike

For Joss!

REGINAROADIE

Monday, October 8, 2007 7:28 PM

Yeah, I always thought that this was a great send-off for Cordelia. I have to admit that when I first started watching Buffy, I really didn't like Cordelia because she was just really annoying. But by season 3, she started to become less so and more enjoyable. But when she moved to L.A. with Angel, I thin part of the appeal of the show was just seeing her transform from the spoiled little princess to a warrior woman on the same level as Buffy.

It's almost a shame that what happened to her in Season 4 was just a rouse and nearly destroyed her character. I would think being asked to become a God or a higher spiritual being would be a good thing instead of getting knocked up again with an evil being. So I'm glad that this episode existed just so that our memories of Cordy weren't tarnished by season 4.

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

JWHEDONADDICT

Monday, October 8, 2007 8:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
Yeah, I always thought that this was a great send-off for Cordelia. I have to admit that when I first started watching Buffy, I really didn't like Cordelia because she was just really annoying. But by season 3, she started to become less so and more enjoyable. But when she moved to L.A. with Angel, I thin part of the appeal of the show was just seeing her transform from the spoiled little princess to a warrior woman on the same level as Buffy.

It's almost a shame that what happened to her in Season 4 was just a rouse and nearly destroyed her character. I would think being asked to become a God or a higher spiritual being would be a good thing instead of getting knocked up again with an evil being. So I'm glad that this episode existed just so that our memories of Cordy weren't tarnished by season 4.

Originally, I thought they were nuts to put her on Angel when I first heard about it (David Greenwalt's idea, not Joss's). Not that I didn't enjoy the character, just couldn't see how that would work. (Thank you, DG!!)

In the writer's defense though, they had to change it a bit when Charisma got preggers, but she was apparently gonna go evil anyway. I think I remember Joss saying once (maybe it was another writer I don't know) that they had run out of ideas for Cordy because too much of the audience were against the pairing of her and Angel...which I guess is where they'd been heading from the get-go (from her getting the visions, maybe? JMO).

***********************************************
Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned.--Ron Glass

"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?"--Angel

"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya

"All I had to do is want it bad enough...and guess what I want to do now, you prissy son of a bitch?"--Spike

For Joss!

DEEPGIRL187

Monday, October 8, 2007 8:41 PM

I'm glad you clarified, JWhedonAddict. I was about to get evil.

Although, I don't understand why people didn't like her and Angel together. That was my favorite pairing out of the entire series.

*****************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

REGINAROADIE

Monday, October 8, 2007 8:46 PM

Actually, I would have preferred to see Angel and Cordy hook up over Angel and Buffy. I know so many fans out there see Angel and Buffy as a couple that would give Romeo and Juliet a run for their money, but I personally never bought the relationship. At least not until SMG guest starred on ANGEL in "I Will Remember You". Angel/Buffy just seemed more of a plot contrivance than an organic part of the story. Plus, the two actors had zero chemistry between them.

But with Angel and Cordy, I honestly felt some sparkage there. Two people that used to be awful people and are slowly working towards personal salvation. I think they'd have more in common than some whiny teenage girl bemoaning her title as the Vampire Slayer.

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

AURAPTOR

Monday, October 8, 2007 11:26 PM

And thank YOU for venting ! I agree w/ your sentiment, and loved the episode as well. One of my all time favs.

It's been a long running issue w/ me, as to which character 'grew' or changed the most, between Cordy and Wes. Even if I give the nod to Wes, Cordy definatly became the better person. (Despite the whole evil mother of Jasmine thing, not so much her fault. But boinking Conner? ....meh. )

Much of Wesleys transformation was based in a very bad spot.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

DEEPGIRL187

Monday, October 8, 2007 11:56 PM

The whole boinking Connor thing is still a bit of an issue for me. If Jasmine needed to use them both to be "born", then is it possible that she influenced Cordy to do it in the first place? I just feel that if she was in her right mind (i.e., having all of her memories), it never would have happened.

As for Wesley, I can't help but love the guy. Maybe he did go through more than a few rough patches, but he's still the man in my book.

*****************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

GROOSALUGG

Tuesday, October 9, 2007 3:31 AM

Well, I would've liked to see Cordy end up with Groo, but... :whistling:

The only thing I didn't like about "You're Welcome" wasn't anything in the episode itself, but rather the episodes that followed it: that is, it would've been nice if there'd been some remorse shown from the likes of Wes, Fred, Lorne, and Gunn. I remember that watching the season the first time thru, when it was revealed at the end of YW that it was some kind of spell, that Cordy hadn't really been there, I wasn't sure if the others even remembered she'd come back--that maybe it had been some kind of 'Connor' type thing where no one (or only Angel) actually remembered the events of YW...

JWHEDONADDICT

Tuesday, October 9, 2007 5:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I'm glad you clarified, JWhedonAddict. I was about to get evil.

Although, I don't understand why people didn't like her and Angel together. That was my favorite pairing out of the entire series.

I was among those who did not like them together. I always saw Angel and Cordy as a bro-sis relationship until season 3...I was thrown for a loop at the time. I was HUGE into Buffy and Angel together for the longest time, and that was part of it, I'll admit. I ended up being okay with her moving on (especially if it's w/Xander), but had always felt his character worked best if she was the one he couldn't get over (since I felt she was the one who inspired him to change his life). I was okay w/Cordy being in love with Angel (he inspired her for the same reason) but not having it reciprocated, maybe. Then the Connor stuff happened. I really don't think Cordy herself was in charge of that decision to sleep w/him but I could be wrong. I think it was Jasmine in control from the moment she got her memory back.

My feelings about Angel/Cordy changed at some point, I think it was probably when I found out they ran out of ideas for the character. I would've accepted ANYTHING rather than have her go evil and/or die. I personally would've liked to have seen her and Gunn have a go since I never saw chemistry w/ him and Fred. I thought they were cute together in the ep. where Cordy and Wes met him for the first time (drawing a blank as to the title) and she decided it was her mission to save him from himself.

***********************************************
Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned.--Ron Glass

"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?"--Angel

"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya

"All I had to do is want it bad enough...and guess what I want to do now, you prissy son of a bitch?"--Spike

For Joss!

JWHEDONADDICT

Tuesday, October 9, 2007 5:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
whiny teenage girl bemoaning her title as the Vampire Slayer.

Part of what I liked about the character, actually. Yes she was strong, but at the same time she was just a girl with an unimagineable weight on her shoulders. Made her relatable and human, not being SO strong all the time. How could a viewer be expected to care at all about a character who never showed any sign of weakness? NO ONE is that perfect, IMHO.

***********************************************
Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned.--Ron Glass

"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?"--Angel

"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya

"All I had to do is want it bad enough...and guess what I want to do now, you prissy son of a bitch?"--Spike

For Joss!

1 2 3 NEXT PAGE