Evils of the World
POSTED BY: theheroofcanton
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:57
VIEWED: 16503
PAGE 5 of 9
Quote:Attempts to label Bush, or any American President, as “evil” are generally fanatical comments driven by a one-sided political agenda. Throwing up a link and yelling fire will probably not get my attention.
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Finn:
I find it interesting that you comment on my voted in comment, but fail to address the evil comment.
Also, could you provide a link supporting your claim please.
As for you request of a supporting material I offer, to start with, US Supreme Court Case, Bush vs Gore.
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-949.ZPC.html
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Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
Ahh, yes, the tax cut for the poor- Of which the poor saw almost nothing; His middle class tax cut (of which I am firmly in the middle class and saw no change) which only weakened the economy- He's a real trooper for the impoverished, that guy- His failure to provide adaquate education for poor children (no child left behind is not helping them)Quote:
See my previous post about the 2003 Advanced Child Tax Credit.
And as far as education is concerned... education begins in the home. Barring that, hopefully you can find really good daycare that is more than just a babysitting service... a pre-school that encourages fun in learning... I don't mean a pre-school that tries to have kids ready for college by First Grade. I've seen some of those where 4 yr olds have homework to do. But one that give kids a way of experiencing the things around them and promotes their creativity individually and collectively as a class.
Here is a fact sheet on No Child Left Behind Act of 2001.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020108.html
Excerpts:
— Accountability for Results: Creates strong standards in each state for what every child should know and learn in reading and math in grades 3-8. Student progress and achievement will be measured for every child, every year.
— Unprecedented State & Local Flexibility & Reduced Red Tape: Provides new flexibility for all 50 states and every local school district in America in the use of federal education funds.
— Focusing Resources on Proven Educational Methods: Focuses educational dollars on proven, research-based approaches that will most help children to learn.
— Expanded Choices for Parents: Enhances options for parents with children in chronically failing schools - and makes these options available immediately in the 2002-03 school year for students in thousands of schools already identified as failing under current law.
-------------------------------------------------
The fed gov may give out $$$ for education but their job is not to micromanage the education system in the country. Their job is to set equitable policies that we can abide by. They set up some standards... if the education systems can meet those standards then that is adequate. If they are below then they have problems. If they exceed, then they've got it goin on.
Any blame for inadequate education systems should be directed to those who are immediately responsible, the teachers, the school administration, the city or town school boards who control the money. If they are not getting the job done, more times than not, it's not how much money they spend, but how they are getting the kids to learn. I've seen schools adopt curriculums that don't work, but they won't see the result of it right away. Look at the Whole Word/Phonics situation that happened in California as the best example.
I don't know how local and state funding work for your local area, but I do know that for Rhode Island it leaves much to be desired. Historically, the State Board of Ed. has little real control over how money is utilized in the individual town school budgets. The state does not have an equitable distribution of funds to each town's school system. Each town's School Board controls the budget, the hiring of teachers, and some of the curriculum. Each town has to negotiate teacher contracts with the teacher's union. The high school curriculum in some towns have only 2 years of English, social studies, and math as a minimum and physical education is 4 yrs. Some towns have had to drop music and art from the curriculum, oh but they kept athletics.
I'm just so glad that my town cares about the whole education of the kids. My daughters' elementary school has a great reading program that goes beyond just the textbook. And I just co-officiate the 4th grade spelling bee and the kids had to go to the end of the 5th grade word list before we wound up with a winner.
A cpl yrs ago Massachusetts next door instituted MCAS testing for high schoolNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Sorry, not a extra refund for 2002, but an advance on our 2003 tax refund which was just filed yesterday...
Quote:
Originally posted by SamuraiX47:Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Oh, and I make about 22 thousand dollars a year, which qualifies me as poor. And I saw nothing like a tax break last year. Nothing. I owed.
QUOTE]
HK, I don't know if you have kids or not but we got ours...
From the www.irs.gov website...
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=111546,00.html
We have 2 children... and probably paid out more in taxes than HK did and so we wound up getting money back... it was basically an extra refund that came in during the summer. And it wouldn't have mattered if we made $50K, $100K or $1 mil. It was a set amount for the number of children. So $400 is a larger percentage comparatively for lower income than for larger income.
Jaymes
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Attempts to label Bush, or any American President, as “evil” are generally fanatical comments driven by a one-sided political agenda. Throwing up a link and yelling fire will probably not get my attention.
Well, did you read that article and the article that it linked to. If you did you would realize that at least there are some significant points made. And you analogy is rather extreme, don't you think.
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
As for you request of a supporting material I offer, to start with, US Supreme Court Case, Bush vs Gore.
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-949.ZPC.html
I'll read this one after I've done my work for the day and comment on it later.
But, the way in which you chose to respond to this specific request wasn't exactly friendly and one could say that it had a touch of arrogance to it. I only asked for evidence, which is entirely acceptable, IMHO. So, lets tone it down a touch, we're all browncoats here.
----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
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Quote:Yes, I read the article. I don’t know about “the article that it linked to”. The article was basically trying to draw comparisons between Nazi Germany and the Bush Administration, which is not only hackneyed but also ridiculous. We are not Nazi Germany, ipso facto. I don’t appreciate these drive-by attempts to paint the Bush Administration as Nazis or Bush as Hitler. And that is an extremist one-sided view. It is exactly like my analogy. Such views are nothing short of screaming fire when there is no fire.
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Well, did you read that article and the article that it linked to. If you did you would realize that at least there are some significant points made. And you analogy is rather extreme, don't you think.
If you have an opinion, then write something up and present it to the board for consideration, and if it is intelligent and I have time, I’ll respond to it. But you can’t expect me or anyone else to respond to every crazy article you can pull off the web. That’s just impossible, you know? It’s got nothing personally to do with you.
Quote:“I didn’t fight in no war.” --Jayne.
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
But, the way in which you chose to respond to this specific request wasn't exactly friendly and one could say that it had a touch of arrogance to it. I only asked for evidence, which is entirely acceptable, IMHO. So, lets tone it down a touch, we're all browncoats here.
I thought I was being very friendly, consequently. And your request for evidence was very acceptable, which I responded to.
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Wow, really great invective, you guys! Keep up the hate!
Reminded me of some more of my most detested things about being in this world, in no particular order:
1. Ideological slaves from the far left who demonize everyone else for the evils of the world.
2. Ideological slaves from the far right who demonize everyone else for the evils of the world.
3. Fence-sitters in the middle who demonize everybody, right and left, for the evils of the world.
Umm, while I believe in political discourse, whether or not it's sane and educated, don't they have someplace else you can go and do it? You're all tying up precious bandwidth with regurgitated dogma, when this website is supposed to be about Firefly.
Go to MSN or Yahoo and vent spleen 'til you're red or blue in the face, depending upon affiliation; then pick up a party-sponsored placard and march; then face off against the counter-protestors and shout epithets at each other; then start throwing things -- bottles, rocks, etc. Meanwhile, the returning heros of our armed forces -- the ones who defend your freedom of speech from all enemies of Democracy with their lives -- are thinking, "What the f**k!?!".
Stubborn refusal to allow other people the right to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions: It's the American Way!
Oh, and if someone tries to make a point, BE SURE AND SHOUT THEM DOWN and insult them. That's sure to win them over to your way of thinking...
Now, imagine stating the opinions expressed here in Saddam's Iraq...
Respectfully,
zoid
_________________________________________________
"River didn't fix faith. Faith fixed River."
- Senator Richard 'Book' Wilkins, Independent Congress
author of A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence
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Quote:I may be somewhat new, but I don't see any hate here. I think 'hate' might be a little strong. I see disagreements. I think disagreements are acceptable, though. We all see the world from different points of view. It's not necessary that we agree with each other, or even respect each other's point of view, but we should respect the evidence and each other. And I see nothing to believe that is not being done. But as I said, I'm new.
Originally posted by zoid:
Wow, really great invective, you guys! Keep up the hate!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
but we should respect the evidence and each other.
Quite frankly I don't see you doing that with regards to our particular discussion. Perhaps it is just the widening gap between our two cultures.
In Canada aggressive tones in discussion make it an argument. Since I tend to see a lot of aggression in your posts, this is an argument. I have tried to post without any aggression in them and I hope that they were taken as such.
To close, here is the link in which I referred.
http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/timeline/nazifica.htm
And I hope that we can meet in another thread, in another discussion, on more hospitable terms.
Until then.
Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Wow, really great invective, you guys! Keep up the hate!
I take offense to that.
----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
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So when Bush annexes Poland war will break out? I did not see that one coming.
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Hey Zoid, now I think you're a little out of line with that last post. If you have spent any time at all on this board, you'd know that what unites us is our love of this tv show Firefly, but what we talk about on the forum is pretty much whatever we feel like. I don't see hate being slung here. At worst I would call it "snottiness" or maybe "condescension." It's a freekin' online debate, surely you've seen the like?
Accusing people of "ideological slavery" feels an awful lot like your own brand of "demonizing" to me. Get off your high horse and share an opinion that isn't meant to make us all look like idiots or crazy people, m'kay?
Oh, and another thing, I hate (ooh, I used the word hate), I say I hate this jingoistic reply people have to any serious criticism of the current administration: "Try voicing that opinion in Iraq." We have a right to question our leaders, Zoid. Period. Not everyone here believes that American men and women are dying in Iraq to protect that right. Some of us believe that their lives are being wasted. Some of us hold the present administration responsible.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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