Evils of the World
POSTED BY: theheroofcanton
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:57
VIEWED: 16503
PAGE 2 of 9
Quote:
I'm surprised that anyone who likes Firefly would dislike George Bush
Well, let's see- One of the biggest Whedon tenets about Firefly is that, and I quote, "It's not about the people who make history, it's about the people history stepped on"- I'm not necessarily going to call GW evil, but he's everything FF is opposed to-
1. Big, rich people who dont care about working stiffs
2. Greedy corporations with sneering 'behind-the-scenes' men (Halliburton and Ol' Dick)
3. Attacking someone without adaquate reason (and before this turns into a flamewar, yeah, I know Saddam was a bad, bad man; but correct me if I'm wrong-and I know I'm not- none of the Sept 11 boys were Iraqi, and no WMD's have been found)
So if anyone was going to be hostile to GW, it's FF fans-
Also, and I think Static will back me up here, just because I dont think well of GW or his decision-making doesnt mean I'm insulting the troops- Got nothin' but love for you guys
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He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
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Hear, hear. And I never called him evil. I said society would be better of without him (or at least without him in power.) Part of being in the military means taking orders, regardless of whether you agree with them, or risk dishonorable discharge. I understand that, and I'm very glad we have the armed services. I don't even necessarily disagree with going into Iraq, and I certainly agree with going into Afghanistan. It's how the whole things been handled by the administration (the diplomacy or lack thereof, the mishandling of the transfer of power, etc.) that turns my stomach. But if a hand steals a loaf of bread (very loose analogy here, bear with me) I blame the person, or if we have to narrow it down to a body part, I blame the brain. Never the hand, right?
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I have disliked George W. since he appeared in the Republican primary four years ago. He has always struck me as insincere, arrogant and selfish. I don't think American soldiers have been sent to Iraq to defend my life nor my liberty, but rather they are to secure financial opportunities for corporate donors. I feel very badly for our men and women in uniform who are being put in harm's way so that some rich men can get richer and America can have a oil-rich puppet state in the Middle East. Long before Bush America and the whole-world began mishandling the Middle East region. Neither America nor Bush can be held accountable for the genesis of the problems in this part of the world, but our continued foreign policy (and this predates Bush by a longshot) that puts our own interests ahead of (and at the expense) of the people in that region is going to find nothing but continuous bloodshed.
While I have no warm fuzzy feelings for Saddam the world is no safer with him gone when the leaders of the world are still willing to back others like him whenever it suits our interests. As long as we are willing to sell weapons of mass destruction. As long as we are going to overlook atrocities. As long as the developed world is willing to support brutal dictators in the developing world in the name of profit, control or convenience we will have no shortage of 'Saddams'.
Now don't think I am excusing politicians from the other side of the isle just because I am critical of Bush. I despised Clinton and I think Kerry is a wishy-washy, 'politics as usual' candidate whom I will never bring myself to vote for. Too many of the politicians and governments opposed to the war are just as much motivated by self-interest as those who supported it (including the blasted French).
I am proud of my country because it was founded on principles, 'French Utopian' principles as it were. When our leaders abandon or compromise those principles it is not something I feel can be soothed with a balm of false nationalism. Concepts like 'due process', 'habeas corpus', 'innocent until proven guilty' have been seriously compromised in the name of security.
It is true that dissent of the war and the policies of our Commander in Chief can give an unintended morale boost to the enemy because they know that they don't necessarily have to win, merely turn public favor. This is why it is so important in a democracy not to resort to war when you don't have the support of a real majority of your people (not just a simple majority).
I don't generally hold with the notion of people being evil, rather I think of them as consenting to evil methods or having evil motivations. I genuinely don't believe Bush cares about the people he is sacrificing to accomplish his goals. I seriously believe he used family connections to avoid combat duty in Vietnam (which is no better or worse than dodging the draft), most of his cabinet and advisors similarly took steps to make sure they wouldn't be sacrificed for their country. In fact everytime Bush gives a speech about the sacrifices that need to be made in the 'war on terror' I can't help but think of the line from Schrek where the Lord says, 'Some of you may not return, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make.' Now Saddam did horrible things that Bush will never come close to; most of those things wouldn't work for Bush as he is in different circumstances (and as been his whole life) but even I give him the benefit of the doubt. Bush and the knee-jerk response for security has proven far more of a threat to liberty and human rights than Saddam or Osama have been.
The reason some of us who like Firefly hold Bush in such contempt might be because there is a lot of Texas in the Alliance and no shortage of good ol' French liberalism in the Browncoats. The Alliance takes away your freedom supposedly in exchange for security, prosperity and convenience (though through a combination of bureaucracy and corruption a multitude are denied even these). Classical liberalism holds that a government only has
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Hero o' Canton wrote:
Quote:
Who do you think is the evilist (sic) company, person, tv station, etc. in the word? FOX and Saddam are my best bets.
Most Evil:
1. Satan, and those who do his bidding (i.e., the guy/gal in your shaving/makeup mirror)
2. Everything about this thread, including this post
It's a dangerous thing to judge people's soul without a clear vision into it, and then call them 'evil'. We're all evil at least once a day...
Respectfully,
zoid
_________________________________________________
"River didn't fix faith. Faith fixed River."
- Senator Richard 'Book' Wilkins, Independent Congress
author of A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence
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I was as hesitant as anyone to call G. W. evil until he announced that he wanted to amend the Constitution of the United States in the name of hate. The Constitution is something of a sacred document. There isn't any hate in it. Banning one segment of our society from the rights and priviledges of the rest of society based on their sexual identity is discrimination, pure and simple. His proposed amendment to ban gay marriage is driven by his hatred of homosexuality. That is as close to a fact as an emotional reality can be. And that is just evil. If he were to manage to get his amendment written into law, he would taint one of the sacred documents that belong to the people of the Earth. Y'see what I'm saying? That would be an evil day for us as human beings. And Bush is doing his part to make that day a reality. 
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:The largest tax cut for the poor since Reagan suggests this isn’t true.
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
1. Big, rich people who dont care about working stiffs
Quote:What constitutes a “greedy corporation” in your world? One that makes a lot of money or one that wants to make a lot of money? Because every business falls into one or two of these categories; even if all they do is fly around looking for work. This has nothing to do with Bush.
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
2. Greedy corporations with sneering 'behind-the-scenes' men (Halliburton and Ol' Dick)
Quote:17 UN Resolutions, 2 invasions of neighboring states, an attempt to assassinate a former American president, the murder and rape of millions of innocent people says you’re wrong.
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
3. Attacking someone without adaquate reason (and before this turns into a flamewar, yeah, I know Saddam was a bad, bad man; but correct me if I'm wrong-and I know I'm not- none of the Sept 11 boys were Iraqi, and no WMD's have been found)
Quote:You mean amend the Constitution for State’s Rights. At the base of the gay marriage issue is not whether the Constitution should forbid a certain group the right to perform certain action. What is at the heart is whether a judge in one state has the right to tell every other state how to govern themselves. That is precisely the concept behind the history that Firefly was based on, according to Whedon.
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
I was as hesitant as anyone to call G. W. evil until he announced that he wanted to amend the Constitution of the United States in the name of hate.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Now stop insulting our fighting men and women, some of whom are here on this board, by claiming their Commander in Chief who sent them into harm's way is more evil then the murdering fanatical bastards they're saving the world from. It aint polite.
Sorry, that bucket of logic holds no water. I support the troops.I want them to live. I want them to succeed.
However unlike the people who can't look at the dead and maimed without clinging to the flimsiest justification to give the sacrifice meaning, I'll admit that the mission they are on is a lie. Our President and his entire pack of war profiteers are liars.
He's killing our troops for a lie and that lie is built around revenge, money, oil and power. Throw in a dash of fundamentalist Dominionism and you've summed up the smirky liar's cabal.
I want our troops to come home safely. Come home to the families who love them and the nation that needs them to vote the murdering millionaires out of the white house.
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS -- IMPEACH BUSH
"Just keep walkin, preacher man."
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Unfortunately, any thread discussing who is the most evil person in the world cannot help but devolve into a political discusssion.
For the record, anyone interested in where our Duly Appointed President fits into the top ten evil list should read a book entitled Fortunate Son: George W. Bush and the Making of an American President by J.H. Hatfield, Soft Skull Press, and make their own decisions. The original St. Martin's Press edition is hard to find, as the company shredded most of it under pressure from the current administration. Welcome to the Land of the Free.
By the way, enjoy your vote while you have it. The washington power brokers are pushing for Electronic Voting w/out a paper trail; the company most likely to get the contract is ChoicePoint. If the name sounds familiar, it's because they handled the 2000 election in Florida.
A constitutional republic. It was a good idea while it lasted...
"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein
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Quote:
I'm surprised that anyone who likes Firefly would dislike George Bush so much
I actually feel sorry for him. People (Me included, but very little) always lampooning him.
Very sorry.
My Evils of the World:
Microsoft and Windows.
P.S. Hero- I now need a new nickname for theheroofcanton.
_____________
"Freedom is the Freedom to say that 2 plus 2 make 4. If that is granted, all else follws"-Winston, 1984
Teela Brown, keeper of bad typing.
"No one reads these things any way."- Bart on Blackboard
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Well whether or not you like bush, I think he's much better than kerry. You may not agree with his ideas, but at least he has them and sticks to them. Kerry seems to go back and forth on everything he says. At one moment he's for the way at another he's against it and claiming that he never was a supporter of the war. It's insane. you dont like bush's stand on gay marriage, well at least he has one. Kerry just dances around it. Me personally I support Bush. I think what he's doing in Iraq and Afganistan is the right thing. He taking evil men out of power.
It drives me insane when people compare bush to saddam. Did Bush have a damn torture center inside our Olympic headquarters? Does Bush use virtually all the country's money to build palaces for himself? does bush murder his own people? So how the fuck does he compare to Saddam?
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