The Return of Jubal Early

POSTED BY: ecgordon
UPDATED: Saturday, April 10, 2004 04:47
VIEWED: 11707
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THECLAPS

Thursday, April 8, 2004 11:32 PM

Why are you all talking about River killing people? She doesn't enjoy killing people. She was just made to. That doesn't mean she wants to. When put in an extreme position and her "training" takes over, she'll kill. But in this scenario, it was just a ploy to get Early off the ship. It was NOT premeditated murder. It was the sweet girl protecting her friends in a non-lethal manner. It was the whole theme of the episode! They both have training, they both are intuitive, yet she doesn't want to kill. All these ideas of her rigging Early's ship are preposterous! She would've mentioned it, or they would have brought it up in the show.

Anyways, I went on on my little fanboy rant there. But realistically, it's left open not for our interpretation, but for Joss to take advantage of if he needs to bring him back. In which case: suit beacon! You people read into it too much! Open ended = writer convenience

ZOID

Friday, April 9, 2004 12:06 AM

You guys are waaaay beyond me on this stuff.

So, I'll just say that:

1. I thought Early was the second-most interesting antagonist on the show. We all know who Numero Uno is don't we? As such, I would definitely like to see his character again, perhaps even as an ally next time.

2. Early had the coolest spacesuit, ship and pistolero of the truncated series.

3. Y'all know who Jubal Early, of American history was right? Look here http://www.civilwarhome.com/CMHearlybio.htm for a peek. Maybe his name's a hint to the character's future?

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"River didn't fix faith. Faith fixed River."

- Senator Richard 'Book' Wilkins, Independent Congress
author of A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence

BLAZINGBUG

Friday, April 9, 2004 1:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Doran:
"I don't think she'd have any problem letting Early die if for no other reason than she knows what he did to Kaylee."

You mean what he threatened to do. In actuality he tied her up and told her she'd be safe if she kept quite. Now River was in a unique position to understand that he was serious about his threats and that he seriously would enjoy hurting Kaylee.

No, I meant what I said, what he did to Kaylee. Using the most evil, painful, frightening threat he could to insure Kaylee would do what he said. Knowing her fear was the most effective way to control her, and leaving Kaylee with the knowledge that her fear was stronger than her desire to help her friends.

Abuse isn't about the act; it's about control, and that is what Jubal did to Kaylee.

Quote:
Originally posted by Doran:
But many people on Firefly have tried to kill or hurt them and even shot Kayle once; River hasn't killed all of them.

Sorry but those instances would only be valid if River was in a position to act. River was in a box when Kaylee was shot and, besides her other issues, was dealing with coming out of cryo early. There was only one time she was in a position to act when anyone was threatened, and we know what she did then.

Besides, I'm not even saying River killed Jubal. I'm saying she let him die. Mal did the deed.

"Wacky fun..."

KARENKAY99

Friday, April 9, 2004 2:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mordraig:
I looked at the reflection in the visor in OIS. To me it looks like a person upside down in perspective to Early's position at that time and it appears the person is holding something (a gun) in their right hand.

we saw it. it's his ship. it's upside down. like ol' betsy.

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

THECLAPS

Friday, April 9, 2004 2:37 AM

Zoid

I read the biography and somehow doubt that this Jubal Early has anything to do with ours, except that he's a character in the setting of a civil war. I mean he's a lawyer who fought for the confederacy as an officer. No talk of bounty hunting. Supposedly a great leader though, had some great battles. I however doubt that we'll see Jubal Early leading a platoon of Alliance troops into attack though... And for some reason, I also doubt that he would have at any point during the war for unification.

Maybe Joss just gets kicks taking names out of history books.

WREN

Friday, April 9, 2004 8:59 AM

Is there any way of pulling the visor image out, like JUSTDAVID did with Inaras needle box?

DORAN

Friday, April 9, 2004 3:13 PM

"Why are you all talking about River killing people? She doesn't enjoy killing people. She was just made to."

Remember this is still highly speculative. We still don't know for sure exactly what the alliance may have had in mind for River. Why strip her imigula to make her feel everything, fear, anger, joy, paranoia, if it was their intention of making her into an untimate killing machine. It seems to me this would have the opposite effect, making her unreliable as a tool of death.

DORAN

Friday, April 9, 2004 3:25 PM

"Abuse isn't about the act; it's about control, and that is what Jubal did to Kaylee."

I thought I heard abuse was about violence. Anyway there are many levels of abuse; as levels go threat is the least violent I can think of, though indeed Jubal's threats were bad.

No doubt Jubal was trying to control Kaylee. But who hadn't tried to control one person or another on board Serenity by threat? Heck, even Mal had made threats against members of the crew in order to control; as far as I know River hasn't tried to kill him yet.

"Besides, I'm not even saying River killed Jubal. I'm saying she let him die. Mal did the deed."

This is your best point yet. I could be wrong. You could be exactly on.. that's the risk we take with speculation. I still like my own pet theory. :O)

Interesting discussion. :)

ASTRIANA

Friday, April 9, 2004 3:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
No, I meant what I said, what he did to Kaylee. Using the most evil, painful, frightening threat he could to insure Kaylee would do what he said. Knowing her fear was the most effective way to control her, and leaving Kaylee with the knowledge that her fear was stronger than her desire to help her friends.

Abuse isn't about the act; it's about control, and that is what Jubal did to Kaylee.

I have to agree here. I know I'm a bit out of synch with everyone on this, but my opinion is that Early is the absolutely scariest of all the characters presented in Firefly - and perhaps several other shows/movies, too. He's just so... emotionless... when he's threatening Kaylee. Sends chills down my spine in a way most "scary" shows and movies can't come close to.

In that scene, I don't know who to be more afraid of - the actor who played Early (whose name I can't remember), for being able to convey that so well, or Joss, for writing it that way. *shudder*

You're right - it's about control, and I really do shudder to think of the kind of damage that hundan might have done to our little Kaylee. (Maybehaps they'll touch on that in the movie, since it's supposed to be set 6 months after OiS?)

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

JGSUGDEN

Friday, April 9, 2004 8:27 PM

Early would have been back. Listen to the DVD commentary by Joss. Let me translate it for you.

"At heart, I love being cruel. I whip puppies in my mind. I imagine how sweet it would be to steal candy from children. I relish the thought of spitting on a friend's hot dog. Except, in reality, I can't do these things.

So, I do them to my characters. I put Angel and Buffy through hell. I make them utterly and totally miserable. Oh, sure, this makes for better stories. But, in truth, I'd do it even if it had no effect on the quality of the story. Because I get a perverse kick out of the pain I cause. And in the end, I don't even have to feel guilty about it. Because my characters are not truly real. Just real enough for me to torture.

And Early is that side of me. Rational. Cruel. And not guilty about it at all. I loved writing him. It was a labor of love. And I would write him again ... and again ... and again ... every time I could work it into the show."

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