Mahmoud Ahmadinejad murders gay people!
POSTED BY: CrevanReaver
UPDATED: Sunday, September 30, 2007 10:14
VIEWED: 7501
PAGE 5 of 10
Hey frem,
glad you agree.
Frankly, in this day and age, in this country that purports to laud our freedom to do what we wish as long as that freedom ends at our neighbors nose, it should be astonishing to me that there's disagreement on this at all. Sadly, I'm too jaded to be unsurprised.
Jongstraw, How does a person who believes that the gay life-style is actually evil reconcile that moral judgement with such a liberal foundation of our coutry's principles? I'm not saying gays were accpeted openly at the time of the writing of our bill of rights, but neither was women's suffrage, or racial equality.
When forced to choose between sombody elses freedom of choice, and your morality that tells you homosexuality is evil, how do you weigh in? Can you support both platforms simultaneously? Does one trump the other?
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As to Auraptor and Jong's amusing, and I hope, partly toungue-in-cheek rhetoric about liberals not caring about gays, because we don't want to go in and depose the Iranian President, I'll just ask them how well gays are doing in Iraq today, thanks to our intervention?
I haven't really heard much about the hurdles we've made for the rights of alternative life-styles over there. I'm sure that while the warring factions are killing each other just for being each other, that they have become far more tolerant of homosexuality than they were in the past. I'm sure if we were to publically ask Al Maliki about the plight of the homosexual in Iraq, he would tell us he has many friends who are gay, and that they say the bathrooms have never been more hospitable.
You know, it oculd just be that liberals don't want to invade a nation with a crazy fundamentalist leader(WITH a crazy fundamentalist leader) because we're certain that no matter how bad things are there now, we will manage to make them worse, especially under the watch of our current President.
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2/3's in to this I got really tired. If some of it doesn't make any sense, that's my excuse
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Quote:
Judith wrote:
Heaven forfend I would accuse our revered leader of being the single most responsible person for the egregious erosion of personal rights in this country or any pre-emptive agression against another sovereign country.
"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'" - Buffy
First of all, none of our personal rights or freedoms have been eroded. Second, what the hell does that have to do w/ Ahmadeinejad's claim that there are no gays in Iran while simualtaneously gays are being publically executed?
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Judith wrote:
Heaven forfend I would accuse our revered leader of being the single most responsible person for the egregious erosion of personal rights in this country or any pre-emptive agression against another sovereign country.
"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'" - Buffy
First of all, none of our personal rights or freedoms have been eroded. Second, what the hell does that have to do w/ Ahmadeinejad's claim that there are no gays in Iran while simualtaneously gays are being publically executed?[i
Warrentless eavesdropping on citizens, allowing citizens to be detained without charge indefinitely, without bail or legal representation. Warrantless private information gathering on citizens.
But yes, you're right this has no place in this thread.
Ahmadinejad is a liar. He executes citizens based on the accusation of being gay. So what is to be done? The US and UN are putting political and economic pressure on the country. What else can be done? I merely ask for suggestions. I've proposed allowing Iranian citizens to apply for political assylum. Any other suggestions?
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Quote:Nah, you just get tasered for asking questions and arrested for peacefully protesting. It's only freedom of speech that's eroded Rap. But I'm sure you won't miss it.
First of all, none of our personal rights or freedoms have been eroded
And wow- the right wing is suddenly worried about the rights of gays. What a fucking joke.
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Frankly, in this day and age, in this country that purports to laud our freedom to do what we wish as long as that freedom ends at our neighbors nose, it should be astonishing to me that there's disagreement on this at all. Sadly, I'm too jaded to be unsurprised.
Jongstraw, How does a person who believes that the gay life-style is actually evil reconcile that moral judgement with such a liberal foundation of our coutry's principles? I'm not saying gays were accpeted openly at the time of the writing of our bill of rights, but neither was women's suffrage, or racial equality.
When forced to choose between sombody elses freedom of choice, and your morality that tells you homosexuality is evil, how do you weigh in? Can you support both platforms simultaneously? Does one trump the other?
Your first response to me was condescending and insulting to me...therefore you got no response back. Now you've toned it down a bit, and I will simply tell you I do not care if you and others here need me to explain what I wrote on this subject, or any other. I know what I know, and I have a lifetime of witnessed living history, and personal experiences. Rather than attack my words, why don't YOU at least try to see another side....ya know...that "tolerance" thing you liberal folks always espouse, but really have none of? Here's a little clue for you.....I couldn't care less if men and women want to screw eachother, or goats & sheep for that matter; as long as I dont have to see it, know about it, or have it rammed down my political throat as mainstream dogma.
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Jongsstraw- you sometimes are reasonable but when you refuse to explain yourself it's impossible to "try" to understand you because we're not telepathic.
Yeah, I have a lifetime of experiences too (I'm really old so I prolly have more than you do) but I don't presume you should try to understand them in absence of an explanation on my part. So instead of asking for folks to practice telepathy, why don't you try practicing communication?
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Always look upstream.
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SIg....I don't think you believe what you just wrote for one minute. According to the liberal majority of 'coats on this board I'm never reasonable. I can write a 200+ word post, filled with historical facts and conclusions, only to have some obtuse, argumentative twit here cherry-pick a sentence or two and attack based on that....quite dis-honest and immature. To tell you the truth, these boards have become very boring & predictable, and I am thinking of not returning...for example...this thread, other threads...Conservative and moderate folks will engage in thousands of words, interesting stuff...then as predictable as the rising sun, you, Rue and gang will swoop in and say something like above....(paraphrasing here ) Bush is as bad as Amadinejad....or Malbad's " eat shit and die pro-war sheeple"...WOW...how smart, how insightful, how fucking insulting to everyone else who was actually making this topic interesting. You and your allies here have chased off just about every Conservative with your endless argumentative and confrontational attacks, highlighted by your delusionally self-imposed attitudes of intellectual and moral superiority over tradional-minded citizens.
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Judith- I have an answer to what we should do about oppressive nations, but it'll never fly because it gets in the way of maximum profit.
It's very simple: place a 5% import tariff on any nation that doesn't have elections certified by the UN, 5% on any nation that doesn't have free unions, 5% on any nation that doesn't grant equal right to all citizens regardless of (fill in all the usual) etc., 5% on nations without a free press and free internet etc. In that way, national leaders will be rewarded for doing the right thing.
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:Whatever.
You and your allies here have chased off just about every Conservative with your endless argumentative and confrontational attacks
Yanno, I ask questions. LOTS of questions. An annoying amount of questions to be sure, but I want to make sure I truly understand what's being said. But nobody "on the right" (by self-description) has EVER asked me what I think.
I read a lot of straw men: liberals say this. leftists think that. Signy wants such and such... but I find it curious that nobody has actually bothered to ask me. And I don't think you really DO know what I think. Sometimes I don't know what I think. Perhaps there are flaws in my logic or my assumptions that would be uncovered if people stopped assuming and attacking and just asked and then listened and then asked some more. 'Cause if I can't stand to be questioned, I don't belong here.
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Your history is different from mine then. I don't know that anyone on the "liberal" side in Europe actually trusted Hitler for a moment.
Hmmm...lets see what the Right Honorable Prime Minister had to say:
"The peoples of the British Empire were at one with those of Germany, of France and of Italy, and their anxiety, their intense desire for peace... The path which leads to appeasement is long and bristles with obstacles. The question of Czechoslovakia is the latest and perhaps the most dangerous. Now that we have got past it, I feel that it may be possible to make further progress along the road to sanity." Neville Chamberlain,Parliamentary Debates, Commons, Vol. 339 (October 3, 1938)
Quote:
Nobody wanted to confront Hitler in 1933,
Actually there was one person. Winston Churchill. And he was right, from the very begining:
"The rise of Germany . . . to anything like military equality with France, Poland or the small states, means a renewal of a general European war."- 1933.
"I will begin by saying what everybody would like to ignore or forget but which must nevertheless be stated, namely that we have sustained a total and unmitigated defeat, and France has suffered even more than we have....the German dictator, instead of snatching the victuals from the table, has been content to have them served to him course by course." —House of Commons, 5 October 1938, talking about the Munich Conferance.
"This is not a question of fighting for Danzig or fighting for Poland. We are fighting to save the whole world from the pestilence of Nazi tyranny and in defense of all that is most sacred to man. This is no war of domination or imperial aggrandizement or material gain; no war to shut any country out of its sunlight and means of progress. It is a war, viewed in its inherent quality, to establish, on impregnable rocks, the rights of the individual, and it is a war to establish and revive the stature of man. Perhaps it might seem a paradox that a war undertaken in the name of liberty and right should require, as a necessary part of its processes, the surrender for the time being of so many of the dearly valued liberties and rights..." 1939, The War Speech
Fella could turn a phrase.
H
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