Time Travel movies and shows that are PC*
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Monday, October 22, 2007 05:45
VIEWED: 17773
PAGE 5 of 6
Quote:Sorta makes the phrase "go @!#! yourself" more of an insult to a time-traveler.
Originally posted by Grounded:
if I'm me looking at myself, which one am I?
Preevert Chrisisall
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Quote:From a physical perspective, what it means is that you can be in two places at the same time. That doesn’t really make a lot of sense.
Originally posted by Grounded:
It seemed to me that you were arguing from a philosophical perspective (i.e. if I'm me looking at myself, which one am I?), but from a physical perspective I don't see the issue. Of course, I could very well be missing something obvious - it's hard to keep track of all these pesky time travelers... ;)
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:From a physical perspective, what it means is that you can be in two places at the same time. That doesn’t really make a lot of sense.
Originally posted by Grounded:
It seemed to me that you were arguing from a philosophical perspective (i.e. if I'm me looking at myself, which one am I?), but from a physical perspective I don't see the issue. Of course, I could very well be missing something obvious - it's hard to keep track of all these pesky time travelers... ;)
But what I'm saying is you're talking about a philosophical 'you' by equating the 'you' of now to the 'you' of then. In the Twelve Monkeys case, what percentage, if any, of the particles making up young Cole's body are the same as those making up old Cole's body? And would it even matter if there was duplication between the two?
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Quote:I’m not sure that it would necessarily matter. We can’t specify the particles exactly enough to say that they are identical. This is why particles can be in a combination of multiple states.
Originally posted by Grounded:
But what I'm saying is you're talking about a philosophical 'you' by equating the 'you' of now to the 'you' of then. In the Twelve Monkeys case, what percentage, if any, of the particles making up young Cole's body are the same as those making up old Cole's body? And would it even matter if there was duplication between the two?
If a person at time A travels (somehow) back in time and meets his younger self at time B, the problem that emerges concerns the nature of predetermination of time. If B recognizes A, then the system is overstrained, because the person at time B must return to B at A. But the older self knew the events that took place at time B, and so the younger person must not diverge from those known events, since it would constitute two different timelines at odds. Time is therefore predetermined, but if that is true then we should be able to determine the exact position and velocity of a particle, which means that quantum mechanics is wrong and we can now say that the two particles are unique.
So I guess it does matter if the particles are duplicated.
Though I have to admit, that this is getting a bit beyond my expertise, so there’s a really good chance, I don’t know what I’m talking about.
However, I contend that I’m going to go back in time in the future and come back and tell myself that I’m wrong. So if I show up in the next few minutes and tell myself that I’m wrong, problem solved.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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It just occurred to me that a series I'm designing (pilot script, episode outlines, season outlines, etc) is partly a time-travel story from outside the time-traveller's perspective.
One of the supporting characters is named Phaera. She's an alien who exists in 12 dimensions (as opposed to the 4 that most corporeal beings inhabit, or the 8 that modern physics speculates), and perceives time on a quantum level (as opposed to the linear way in which we do).
(Let's say I scatter 52 cards face-down, and tell Phaera to find the Queen of Hearts. A normal human would need to check the cards one-by-one until finding the right one. Phaera will create 52 different timelines, reaching for a single card in each one. Then, she will erase all the timelines where she doesn't find the Queen. From anyone else's [linear] perspective, it'll seem like she's gotten it right on her first try --like she always does.)
She can also travel backwards and forwards along her personal timeline, to "remake" any decision she's made along the way. She's not in two places at once (well, she can be, but that has nothing to do with time-travel), she's just responding to future events to prevent them from happening (or ensure that they do happen).
She doesn't make mistakes, but there are times she deliberately chooses a certain outcome to ensure a long-term result (like letting her fighter get shot down by a rookie who needs to develop self-confidence in order to survive the surprise attack that's coming tomorrow --even if it means she can't take part in the defense because she'll be in the infirmary with a broken leg).
She's also more than 13 millennia old, so her personal timeline can go back that far, and forward to the Big Crunch.
This makes her extremely powerful but for two things:
-as much control as she has over her own "spacetime trajectory," she can't make other people do things they don't want to (except by actively begging/tricking/manipulating them). She can't save everyone. Even if they're her friends.
-she's madly in love with the man that her boyfriend (the young and insecure series lead) will eventually become; most of her decisions are designed to influence him and shape his timeline. Part of that means that there are times she has to have no influence, where he has to stand or fall on his own --she can see the different possibilities, but he (being linear) has to make his own decisions.
It's not until many years "later" (Season 3 or 4) that we learn that she's been manipulating time in his favour all along --even to the point of ensuring that his ancestors left Earth to colonize the world where he was born. Perhaps even to the point of ensuring that a few apes on a backwater world started working together to invent civilization.
(Yes, the entire history of mankind was motivated by Love. The one force that truly can alter the future of the universe.)
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
If a person at time A travels (somehow) back in time and meets his younger self at time B, the problem that emerges concerns the nature of predetermination of time. If B recognizes A, then the system is overstrained, because the person at time B must return to B at A. But the older self knew the events that took place at time B, and so the younger person must not diverge from those known events, since it would constitute two different timelines at odds. Time is therefore predetermined, but if that is true then we should be able to determine the exact position and velocity of a particle, which means that quantum mechanics is wrong and we can now say that the two particles are unique.
I guess the Twelve Monkeys example avoids this because young Cole doesn't recognise old Cole, and so derives no future knowledge from the 'meeting'. After a few pages of head-scratching, I'm liking this movie more and more ;)
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Someone else was telling me about this movie at work. I remember watching it long ago, but I didn’t pay enough attention to it to really appreciate it.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Ok, don't know how you guys will feel about it, but just watched the pilot for Journeyman (a new show on NBC this fall) as a free download from Amazon.com.
At one point, the main character sees his younger self, but has the presence of mind to hide before his younger self can see him. A very important part I think that shows that the writers are at least thinking a little when it comes to time travel.
If you get NBC, I'd recommend watching this one. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't, but I think I will. 
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I thought Journeyman was decent. It wasn't completely clear how the time travel aspect will work, but I'm sticking around for a few episodes at least.
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Donnie Darko is my fav Time Travel movie and offers a different idea on Time Travel, if you don't understand the film or wanna understand the film completely there is a post on the Forum of Donnie Darko at IMDB.com which explains everything, you need to be a imdb member to view posts on the forum...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0246578/board/thread/67943807
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