Zoe

POSTED BY: wytchcroft
UPDATED: Saturday, October 13, 2007 18:09
VIEWED: 5243
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WYTCHCROFT

Friday, September 14, 2007 11:06 PM

ok so - deep breath - Zoe...

Simon may be secretive - he may have mystery...

kaylee may be cookie dough.

but Zoe... who is she - this most enigmatic of the crew...

we know she doesn't like cooking - we see her in action in war stories -
but again she plays her cards close to her chest.

I love the warmth she shares with Inara in Trash.

but - so much of Zoe is keeping still - or is filled by Gina
that it's hard to pin her down and flesh her character out in a fic.

I have a very simple Zoe focused fic idea - so this is my first SOS before trying to write it!

NBZ

Friday, September 14, 2007 11:57 PM

You have to remember that scene in Trash is also Play acting for the sake of Saffron.

Anything and everything past the point of Saffron rising out of that box is doubtful. Could e real, could be not.

Like Jayne asking that question. He knows they are all acting. He knows that he has to say something. But what? It's a "we applied the cortical electrodes but couldn't get a neural reaction" moment rather him being dense.

/notices he is way off topic.

Zoe then?

Yes, plays things close to her chest as you say.

Also (I would argue) probably the only crew member that Sees Mal as a person, actual and whole.

A soldier by trade, a soldier by nature. She may have a good head for leadership (which I think she does), but she is a reluctant leader. She probably prefers others to make the tough decisions. She follows orders, so can sleep easier at night.

She may have got married, but in mindset she has moved on a LOT less than Mal from the War.

She is strong, both in body and in will. Not gonna play games. If she wants something, she will go get it.

EDIT - You might enjoy this:
http://stillflying.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=613

WYTCHCROFT

Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
You have to remember that scene in Trash is also Play acting for the sake of Saffron.

oh yes - sure - word wise...
but the warmth is in the faces -
maybe just the fun of being in firefly!

the rest of your post i shall consider carefully -
i agree about zoe's slow movement from the war, i also think she probably has a more idealist view of the browncoats/indies...

thanks for the link:)

WYTCHCROFT

Friday, October 12, 2007 9:25 AM

i thought this was telling - from Dead or Alive:

Quote:

ZOE
For the last time, he's the Captain.

WASH
Let out some of the starch, darling.
You're not in the military anymore.

ZOE
It's not that, it's...

WASH
Yeah, yeah. Who you are. The code.

makes me think of that bob dylan lyric "we entirely agreed - sacrifice was the code of the road..."

the novelisation of the BBDM adds a little insight - a bit simplistic maybe...

AGENTROUKA

Friday, October 12, 2007 9:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:

Also (I would argue) probably the only crew member that Sees Mal as a person, actual and whole.

I would argue against that. :)

With the exception of Jayne, Simon and, say, Wash, I think everyone on the ship sees Mal as a person, which is why each in their way they make efforts to get Mal to open up.

Kaylee ,in particular, plays to his softer side deliberately. ("You're a nice man, Cap'n.")

Book immediately zeroes in on Mal's soul behind the Captain persona.

Inara wouldn't be in the dilemma she is, if Mal as a person did not affect her. If he was the Captain or A Tragic Soldier or whatever, she could put him in a box and keep a lid on it.

Jayne, Wash and Simon each in their way, are in conflict with Mal, which keeps them from really trying to empathize, which also shows that Mal's has trouble playing nice with other boys. He has Man-issues, probably stemming from his paternal abadonment. But whatever.

Most of the crew really see Mal as a person. They just don't have the detailed background information that Zoe does to fill in the blanks and predict his moves as correctly.

Jayne is in greater danger of being dismissed as a sentient object, among them. And River, of course.

Also, Zoe. She keeps more things to herself than Mal does, which makes her a projection surface. I doubt Simon, Jayne, Book or sometimes Kaylee think much about the person she really is.

MAL4PREZ

Friday, October 12, 2007 2:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
Also (I would argue) probably the only crew member that Sees Mal as a person, actual and whole.

I would say that she's the only one who knows the why of Mal. She's the only one who knew him before all the badness of Serenity Valley changed him. So the others may believe that he is a whole person underneath (copy AR's arguments here LOL!), but they don't really know who that person is. She does.

Quote:
She may have got married, but in mindset she has moved on a LOT less than Mal from the War.

Really? I don't agree at all! But I'm intrigued - why do you say so?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

THEQUICKBROWNFOX

Friday, October 12, 2007 2:37 PM

Zoe and Kaylee could use an exchange of personality with each other (mind reading gizmo gone pear shaped with temporary results?). I believe that each would benefit from the others POV. Haha! ;)

From one thing, learn ten thousand things.

WYTCHCROFT

Friday, October 12, 2007 2:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
She's the only one who knew him before all the badness of Serenity Valley changed him. So the others may believe that he is a whole person underneath, but they don't really know who that person is. She does.

i don't disagree - but, just to explore a different perspective, it IS possible that Zoe knows who Mal WAS* - not who he IS.
Same with Book.
Everyone keeps trying to find the Mal underneath - but that Mal reallly did die in Serenity Valley. The end of the BDM shows the potential for a NEW more whole Mal. (which is backed up - in a more negative sense by his words to Inara - the man who goes to war in the BDM is harder and more remorseless than Seargent Reynolds - and who "goes with wrath"), possibly.

But if the crew represent the elements of himself that are lost (which is certainly Fillions view) then Mal still has a long road to walk - since Book and Wash are now lost themselves...

If such a view is plausible then it holds that Zoe is clinging to the past somewhat.

This is a different issue from sheer loyalty - which of course we know damn well she has buckets of - but not an incompatible one... (maybe!)

*the Operative fails with Mal because his informationa and analysis of the Captain represent a man who does not exist anymore.

ASARIAN

Friday, October 12, 2007 2:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
Also (I would argue) probably the only crew member that Sees Mal as a person, actual and whole.
I would say that she's the only one who knows the why of Mal. She's the only one who knew him before all the badness of Serenity Valley changed him. So the others may believe that he is a whole person underneath (copy AR's arguments here LOL!), but they don't really know who that person is. She does.

Quote:
She may have got married, but in mindset she has moved on a LOT less than Mal from the War.
Really? I don't agree at all! But I'm intrigued - why do you say so?

Very good observations. I don't disagree on any particular point.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

MAL4PREZ

Friday, October 12, 2007 4:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
i don't disagree - but, just to explore a different perspective, it IS possible that Zoe knows who Mal WAS* - not who he IS.

Excellent point! I don't mean to suggest that the pre-war Mal is the "real" person and he'll be returning to that. I agree that he won't; he's been permanently changed. But it does affect one's understanding of him to know that he was once cheery and optimistic, and to have experienced him that way. Zoe's the only one who did.

And I don't think all his positive traits completely died. They're still in him, hidden under gruff defensiveness and a, uh... a slightly abrasive way of dealing with people.

Zoe's able to trust him so completely because she *knows* of his moral fiber. She knows that when he acts like an ass it's maybe because of the crap he's been through (which only she knows about in full). She has no doubt that he's good man. He'll come through in the end, when it's important, because he's got that core of the man he used to be.

Quote:
If such a view is plausible then it holds that Zoe is clinging to the past somewhat.

Hmm. I don't see her as clinging to the past as much as informed by it. And I don't see her as still living in the war as much as just having an inherently military manner and thought process because that's how she was raised. (nbz - is that what you meant, sort of? At all?)

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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