Boycott Fox? You've got to be kidding.
POSTED BY: Thrawn
UPDATED: Friday, April 9, 2004 13:37
VIEWED: 16792
PAGE 5 of 8
Just to touch on a couple of your other points, though - boycotting the advertising companies will do no good. There's no way for them to connect lower sales of their product with them advertising on Fox even if the people boycotting manage to noticably lower their sales, which is doubtful on the face of it. Also, principle is not the only thing that matters. You do the things that make what you want to happen happen. And what you're doing is useless...you may feel morally superior, but you're making no difference at all. Wouldn't you rather cause them to fix the problem, rather than just feeling good about yourself for not letting it get to you?
Man, I hope this is not true. "Principle is not the only thing that matters. You do the things that make what you want to happen happen." It is a sad day for humankind if it is.
I boycott when I feel the need to let a company know that I have a problem with them. I also tell them I am boycotting then and why I am boycotting them. I tell my friends and my family and ask for their support. Some agree, some don't. Right now, I could log onto messenger and ask 60 family members( the ones that know what a computer is) to boycott Fox for their horrible programming. I bet all 60 would do it. Okay so now there are 61 people telling Fox and their sponsors that they are boycotting until they do something about the programming. We may only be 61, but they have to wonder if we represent a cross section of people, and we do. We come from all classes, multiple ethnicities, professional and trade, and various locations. Just as the little Nielsen box represents a cross section, a known, verbalized boycott can too.
www.thatweirdgirl.com
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Do you not steal things because you might get caught or because it's the wrong thing to do? Do you not shop at Wal-mart because you want your efforts to drive them out of business, or do you just not want your money to support the company that refuses to give any benifits to its workers and sells clothing made by asian children?
It's not a question of FOX failing due to my decision not to watch it. It's simply a matter of, FOX will never publish anything I want to watch anyway and even if they do, it will be gone within a season. I don't want them getting any populartiy. My part in this effort is to not watch them.
It's "doing the right thing" regardless of outcome. Not that this is as important as not shopping at wal-mart... but doing your own small part always feels good.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn:
So, especially after Wonderfalls, there seems to be a HUGE number of people with the general thought "That's it. I'm done. I'm never watching a single Fox show ever, period."
I ask you - what are you hoping to accomplish? You think you're going to drive Fox out of business? You have no chance. No CHANCE. If everyone that ever watched Firefly or Wonderfalls never watched another Fox show again, we'd still barely make a dent. Fox's general audience is so completely different from those shows that us boycotting them isn't going to accomplish anything useful.
You are right, to a point.
I don't think anyone hopes to drive Fox out of business. The Browncoats here are an intelligent bunch, if not a bit passionate. We all know that unless we have a Nielson box Fox doesn't give a ruttin' hump about us or what we watch.
There is however this little thing called principle. We may not hurt FOx, but if enough band together, their voices may be heard in expressing our outrage at the mishandling of yet another great show.
Of course the Nielson Box works two ways. If we don't have one and watch a show, the networks don't know what we are watching and don't care. If we don't have a box, and don't watch a show, they still don't know or care. So our watching or not watching any given show really doesn't matter one gorram bit.
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It will, however, accomplish one thing very well - the NEXT time Fox buys a Firefly, or a Wonderfalls, the audience that would watch it, the audience that would keep it on air, will be boycotting the network, so it will fail AGAIN. And the exact same thing will happen. All you're going to accomplish by refusing to watch anything Fox ever produces is help prevent Fox from ever producing anything interesting. Which, it seems to me, is exactly the opposite of what you'd want.
Not really. See, without that much vaunted Nielson box, they don't know what we are or are not watching. They are not trying to reach us, they are trying to reach Nielson families.
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There is no conspiracy here. The only reason Fox cancels shows is because they tank. If you look at the Wonderfalls ratings, they fell sharply, from an already fairly bad first number. Granted, Fox is worse than most at promoting these shows and placing them in positions where they will be watched, and it's likely that they made a mistake by cancelling it early, but it's not because they're evil malicious conservatives or because they have a death feud against Tim Minear. It's because they don't understand how it takes a long time for cult followings to develop, and aren't willing to grant the time it takes for that to happen.
I agree. Obviously the chimps (read network execs) @ Fox have no clue about sci fi or the fact it takes a while for such things to catch on. Cancelling show after only 4 or 5 episodes is ridiculous. They have already bought the full 13 episodes, why not run them and see if they catch on. Sure, move it around a bit if you have to, but why waste the money you have already invested by cancelling it before it really ever started?
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If we're ever going to get a show like this to stick around, we're going to have to show them that it's profitable for that to happen. Which means, first and foremost, that we have to actually watch it. Fox may be an unusually pathetic and incompetent network, but that's two good shows in a row they've been interested in and bought, and that failed because not enough people watched them. It's mostly their fault, but it's partially ours, too.
Not entirely true.
If asked what the ratings were for say Firefly, someone will spit some statistic at me garnered from the Nielson people based on how many Nielson homes tuned in to the show. That number in no way reflects how many non-Nielson families watched the show, so how is it an accurate representation of the number of viewers? What are there, like less than 100,000 homes in Ame
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Quote:
Originally posted by zeke023:
Do you not steal things because you might get caught or because it's the wrong thing to do? Do you not shop at Wal-mart because you want your efforts to drive them out of business, or do you just not want your money to support the company that refuses to give any benifits to its workers and sells clothing made by asian children?
It's not a question of FOX failing due to my decision not to watch it. It's simply a matter of, FOX will never publish anything I want to watch anyway and even if they do, it will be gone within a season. I don't want them getting any populartiy. My part in this effort is to not watch them.
It's "doing the right thing" regardless of outcome. Not that this is as important as not shopping at wal-mart... but doing your own small part always feels good.
I avoid Wal-mart as well. Last night I might have tuned in to Malcolm and Arrested Development but I just couldn't do it. I am soooo disgusted with Fox and then this morning's newspaper has this blurb by their television critic.
"WE'RE NOT SUFFERING ENOUGH?
Make it stop. Please. Fox unveils its latest reality show, The Swan, in which non-babes undergo plastic surgery, as well as life coaching and physical training so they can compete in a beauty pageant that serves as May's finale. Just describing it makes me want to shower. Ick."
People going under the knife for the sake of entertaining the masses. What's next? I can just see the pitchmen in front of the Fox executives, "Convicted criminals fighting to the death with swords and tridents is the next big thing, it was massive in old Rome! It's time has come again, it'll be huge" Panem et circum, we haven't come very far have we? Sorry if I butchered the latin.
“but I’ve been sane awhile now and change is good” …Wash
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Personally, I place great importance on acting on principle. I just find it more spiritually fulfilling to act in a positive way, than to dwell on the negative; to be constructive, rather than destructive. So, rather than decry the powers that be at Fox TV, I do what I can to support Firefly. I put my money where my mouth is and purchase the DVDs. I use my mouth too, blabbering on about how much I like the show, hoping to turn others onto it. In the end, I am happier because I am spending my time, money, energy, and enthusiasm on something I love (Firefly), rather than focusing on something that brings me stress and pain (Fox TV). If Fox airs another program I enjoy, I will watch it and support it because it is in line with my principles to support good works. As Zoe said in Heart of Gold,"...I ain't so afraid of losing something that I ain't gonna try to have it."
Tearing down Fox TV, or even the execs. responsible for decisions that do not serve me well will not bring back Firefly, but purchasing the DVDs, spreading the word, and supporting the movie just might. And at the end of the day, I am happy to have had the pleasure and hopeful to have more, rather than bitter and spiteful for having been burned.
In Firefly, Mal has lost everything; as a result, he's not such a happy guy. I just lost a TV show, and I refuse to sacrifice my happiness over that injustice.
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This is an interesting thread. I felt extremely disappointed when Fox cancelled Space Above and Beyond so many years ago. Then they would not sell the rights to sci fi so the rumors went. I was in the boycotting mood. I cannot think of a series I have watched on Fox for a long time.. but it would not matter in the least, like the original post went.
If you want to boycott, do it for your own personal satisfaction: don't do it to stick it to the man. You will be disappointed.
I feel if you boycott the dvd's, you are shooting yourself in the foot. If no one bought the Firefly dvd's, would the movie be a reality? I think that by sending a message to the creator of the series, not the network that had no vision, is more important. It is Joss you are supporting, not fox. He knew it was good, we know it is good.. hence the, what? 35 million for a movie? That is the message to send to fox. Hopefully, the movie will be a hit and then the series might pop up again.. anywhere but Fox, I hope.
Sorry so long..
g
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I've written a lot on this topic, but maybe left a couple of things unclear. So, briefly (I promise):
1. I boycott only Fox Primetime and Fox Primetime sponsors. Where a sponsor package-buys time on Primetime, Sports and/or News, I don't cut them any slack. I boycott. I have never started a "Boycott Fox" campaign. I do as my conscience guides me, and intend to let others make up their own minds over the issue of the appropriate way to behave as responsible consumers.
2. The only exception to my Primetime boycott has been Wonderfalls, because of loyalty to the artist, Minear. This is complementary with the sentiment of my "Principles" sermon, posted earlier (Loyalty is one of my Principles).
3. I downloaded SVCD versions of all the Firefly eps from the A.B.M.F. newsgroup, most provided by generous Brit fan "Hel", who not only got all the episodes, but in correct order from SciFi UK. I did that because we never got a chance to see them all, never got a chance to see reruns.
4. When the DVD set came out, I purchased it, even though I already had the eps burned to CDR. Why? Because it deserved my support... Because I wanted to show my appreciation to the show's creators and actors. Even though JW said they got no money from the sales, that the show "belonged to Fox", I figure good sales figures would let Mutant Enemy know that the people care about their work, and in doing so, give them the encouragement to carry on. I feel we have succeeded there and I feel good about our accomplishment.
5. Besides that 'good feeling' achieved by encouraging true artists to continue making good art, buying the DVD instead of continuing to watch pirated versions was the right thing to do. See again, "Principles" and item #2, above.
I promised 'brief' and I think that about covers anything I may have left unsaid in previous posts. Thanks for listening.
Respectfully,
zoid
P.S.
The only pirated Firefly-related material I still possess and regularly view is the uncut gag reel extra. It's considerably longer and includes video clips of all the office people, gaffers, makeup artists, et al, who made the show what it was. I thought those 'family photos' were a poignant example of how much ME & JW care about their team, the people who ultimately cared enough to make Joss' endeavor a success.
It also made me shed a tear to think that Fox would excise so noble a tribute from the released version... I'm sorry, but that's just plain evil.
zoid
_________________________________________________
"River didn't fix faith. Faith fixed River."
- Senator Richard 'Book' Wilkins, Independent Congress
author of A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence
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POLITICAL:
http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|87282|1|,00.html
"Alias" has been a critical favorite since its premiere and has a devoted fan following. However, its ratings have never been more than mediocre, earning it the dubious honor of being a "cachet show" -- one that might not perform well overall, but a good project for a network to be associated with."
I like Alias but this is true. Alias doesn't have great ratings but they keep it on because they like it. Wonderfalls, Firefly, and Angel have been cancelled because a TV exec doesn't like it. Ratings aren't the only factor for these people.
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Quote:
Originally posted by splibertarian:
Personally, I place great importance on acting on principle. I just find it more spiritually fulfilling to act in a positive way, than to dwell on the negative; to be constructive, rather than destructive. So, rather than decry the powers that be at Fox TV, I do what I can to support Firefly. I put my money where my mouth is and purchase the DVDs. I use my mouth too, blabbering on about how much I like the show, hoping to turn others onto it. In the end, I am happier because I am spending my time, money, energy, and enthusiasm on something I love (Firefly), rather than focusing on something that brings me stress and pain (Fox TV). If Fox airs another program I enjoy, I will watch it and support it because it is in line with my principles to support good works. As Zoe said in Heart of Gold,"...I ain't so afraid of losing something that I ain't gonna try to have it."
Tearing down Fox TV, or even the execs. responsible for decisions that do not serve me well will not bring back Firefly, but purchasing the DVDs, spreading the word, and supporting the movie just might. And at the end of the day, I am happy to have had the pleasure and hopeful to have more, rather than bitter and spiteful for having been burned.
In Firefly, Mal has lost everything; as a result, he's not such a happy guy. I just lost a TV show, and I refuse to sacrifice my happiness over that injustice.
That's exactly what I was trying to say by starting this thread. Thank you.
And, Zoid - once again, I agree with all of your philosophical ramblings, and I've already had quite a few experiences to acquaint me with life's little habit of being random. I just don't see how boycotting Fox on principle counts as a real principle...it seems to me that what you actually want to do is promote good TV, and that, with all the randomness and the unlikeliness for anything we do to have any effect, it still seems like refusing to watch anything on Fox is going to do nothing but be counter-productive.
I didn't mean to get into a philosophical argument about ethics; I'm in complete agreement with just about everything that's been said about principle and doing things because they're right. I bought the Firefly DVDs despite the fact that I had all the episodes pirated, too, because it was the right thing to do. I don't steal, because it's the right thing to do. That's all well and good.
But I can give you reasons why stealing is wrong that make sense, outside of just "I think it's morally right". I feel like any system of morals has to be logically/pragmatically based at some level. And I feel like it's more morally right to try and convince Fox they're wrong, by promoting the hell out of good shows to anyone I can find who'll listen to me and hoping to get the word out, than just ignoring them and refusing to have anything to do with them in the hope that it will eventually get better. I don't think that's ever going to change anything, and I wouldn't feel better about myself for not trying.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
If asked what the ratings were for say Firefly, someone will spit some statistic at me garnered from the Nielson people based on how many Nielson homes tuned in to the show. That number in no way reflects how many non-Nielson families watched the show, so how is it an accurate representation of the number of viewers? What are there, like less than 100,000 homes in America w/ a box? That is very small percentage of the millions of homes in America that turn on the tube every night. Just doesn't add up to me.
As for it being our fault, what more can we do than tune in and spread the word. It seems quite a few here did that.Quote:
Don't boycott Fox, and don't assume that we'll never get one of these to work. All you're doing is causing more harm than good, and reducing the possibilities for more creative shows in the future. By all means, don't watch the bad ones - avoid any and all reality TV like the plague - but if you see one that looks interesting, watch it. And if you like it, get other people to watch it.
You never know what we can do when we try hard enough.
Interesting shows and Fox mix like oil and water. It just doesn't work. Fox mishandles the shows, and does little in the way to advertise the show. Seems to me they don't know how to sell a product unless it is a reality show. Are they truly that incompetent, or do they simply not care?
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."
I know about the Nielsens boxes, and I realize the logistical problems introduced. That's not what I'm arguing. What I meant was if you don't ever try to find good shows, and thus don't make the effort to get the word out (such as by boycotting Fox), then the problem will never be solved.
And I definitely disagree with the argument that we shouldn't try just because we haven't succeeded lately.
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