Simon - who IS he??
POSTED BY: wytchcroft
UPDATED: Thursday, September 27, 2007 23:29
VIEWED: 8134
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Ok, so - just as in the show itself, Simon Tam has lurked in and around the edges of the action here - the various posts and threads... generally related to someone or some thing else.
Who is the enigmatic Dr Tam exactly?
I've stated elsewhere that i don't trust him entirely - and tried to point out how many of the events witnessed by the viewer are actually subjective P.O.V. from him... I also think he manipulates Kaylee at times - in the same way as the man from The Message.
I did try to dig a little in my last fic - as he watched scenes from serenity over and over on the screens of Mr Universe. Especially the moment when the Operative mentions his motivation as being LOVE.
what IS love? Does Simon FEEL love - he is often caled emotionless and compared to Mr Spock even!
I think he is FULL to the brim with feeling. I also think this may be dangerous.
I think his views on 'making people better' - 'fixing' them, could actually clash with the ideals of our BDH's... and most intriguingly that he may approve of River's modifications - he is in obvious awe of her - though not the methods used...
BUT BUT BUT - Simon is a slippery customer - and I am writing TWO different takes on him at the moment just to TRY and catch him!
so all character analysis - pointers from the show - are welcomed...
make someone a browncoat today - don't drive nobody away
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I've stated elsewhere that i don't trust him entirely - and tried to point out how many of the events witnessed by the viewer are actually subjective P.O.V. from him... I also think he manipulates Kaylee at times - in the same way as the man from The Message.
How do you think he manipulates Kaylee? This intrigues me as I've never thought about that at all. Please tell! :)
I think he's just comepletely at a loss being surrounded by these criminals in the beginning, so different from how he was raised.
Look at us (well, most of us I'd say are middle class or lower) and how we look at the rich and snobby? Now reverse that and that's probably how Simon feels (at least in the beginning) toward the crew.
But they aren't all he expects them to be. He doesn't expect to like any of them. He wants them to be a waystation (as Mal says in the film) and nothing more. But he's stayed. There's a reason, or more, that wasn't spelled out for us.
Mal has morals, however deeply buried Simon may think them to be.
Kaylee is nice and sweet (on him and I think he knows it - at least a few episodes down the line. Though he has his sister to care for and doesn't reciprocate any of her advances) and treats him and his sister like normal people.
Inara is from his 'world' but she is very down to earth, where I imagine the people in his society are very 'Hollywood'. Only giving to get something back in a very 'its who you know' society.
Jayne is everything Simon expect from Rim world people and doesn't like him at all.
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what IS love? Does Simon FEEL love - he is often caled emotionless and compared to Mr Spock even!
I imagine he's one of those people who internalizes many things. A product of the society he was born and raised into, I assume.
As far as him capable of feeling love. It's very clearly love that motivated him to give up everything he had for his sister.
At some point, he probably grew to love other portions of his new life as well, but the series didn't go on long enough to really delve too deeply into whatever those feelings may have become.
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I think his views on 'making people better' - 'fixing' them, could actually clash with the ideals of our BDH's... and most intriguingly that he may approve of River's modifications - he is in obvious awe of her - though not the methods used...
Again, I assume a product of how he was raised. But something he probably would have changed his mind about being forced to live on the Rim with the motley crew of Serenity.
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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Originally posted by Leiasky:
But he's stayed. There's a reason, or more, that wasn't spelled out for us.
WHY? exactly - why not hide out with the 'underground' he claims to have contact with???
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Kaylee is nice and sweet (on him and I think he knows it - at least a few episodes down the line. Though he has his sister to care for and doesn't reciprocate any of her advances)
Simon KNOWS kaylee is sweet for him - does he use her affection to bond him with the crew because he is a lonely outsider? because it will stop them looking at him too deeply?? or because like Kaylee he too is simply affection starved?
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I imagine the people in his society are very 'Hollywood'. Only giving to get something back in a very 'its who you know' society.
i really wish you would contribute a 'working for the man' piece - i'd love to read your version of core/aalliance life - i'm only just starting to grapple with it. lower class myself, see.
.
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It's very clearly love that motivated him to give up everything he had for his sister.
are you... sure? we only have his and the operative's word for that - but more interestingly what is Simon's kind of love - three years he waited to get River back... oh - but - hmmm - still thnking 'bout that one.
thanks for the great reply L.S.!
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I pretty much trust Simon. With the caveat that River matters more to him than anyone else (and that is one of the few things I have not questioned about Firefly, even if others have).
Why did he decide to stay with the ship? Probably because he did not have all that much faith left in the underground. For one there was a mole on the very ship he chose (or was told to choose - but that is another topic for another day. I do not believe in too much coincidence in a fiction setting. How did Book, Inara AND Simon end up ion the same boat? I can at most allow one coincidence, but not all three). Secondly, why would they protect him further? Did they want River for themselves?
(I did suggest on another forum that the "underground" may be just one guard who needed quick money to pay off his gambling debts... Saw Simon as an easy avenue for the cash, and did not care for what happened to Simon afterwards... Just think of the irony.)
A second question arises from Safe "If it is money that you want, I can arrange something". Now that does not ago along with "He ain't rich. The 'lliance crashed all his accounts when he broke River out."
Or with that he must have had a plan of where to go when he decided to leave Serenity in the BDM - fugitives do not stay out in the open for too long. Either they hide or get pinched. And he is bonafide genius to boot. He had a plan, of that I am positively sure.
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Originally posted by nbz:
I pretty much trust Simon. With the caveat that River matters more to him than anyone else
i don't question that exactly more... in what way - and why - i know they were close etc... but it's also complex (to me)
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Why did he decide to stay with the ship? Probably because he did not have all that much faith left in the underground.
and, again, what 'underground'? the more i think about it - the less i believe in it - or atleast the way simon makes it sound - if there is an underground of sorts - then, judging by his access , demeanor etc in BDM opening... it is perhaps darker - and Tam a bigger player - than we know.
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(I did suggest on another forum that the "underground" may be just one guard who needed quick money to pay off his gambling debts... Saw SImon as an easy avenue for the cash, and did not care for what heppened to Simon afterwards... Just think of the irony.)
LOL! delicious!
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A second question arises from Safe "If it is money that you want, I can arrange something". Now that does not ago along with "He ain't rich. The 'lliance crashed all his accounts when he broke River out."
again, with the not believing a word the man says...
thanks for the reply!
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'Bout the only thing I can offer at this time to this conversation is that I, too, belive that Simons nature is because of where he was raised... I personally see the core as being much more chinese than english based, culturaly and emotionally, than the rimmers... just my 2 platinum's worth... but thanks a ton for bringing up a new topic for me to think on in Firefly... not that I didn't have enough of 'em to begin with... lol
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Originally posted by wytchcroft:
Simon KNOWS kaylee is sweet for him - does he use her affection to bond him with the crew because he is a lonely outsider? because it will stop them looking at him too deeply?? or because like Kaylee he too is simply affection starved?
I am of the opinion the only shield Simon hides behind is River. It's not that he wants something, but that River needs it. Even if she doesn't.
Then there is the fact that Simon pines over what he decided to leave behind. He does want his old life back.
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Originally posted by nbz:
Then there is the fact that Simon pines over what he decided to leave behind. He does want his old life back.
you mean back before his gambling debts forced him to sell his sister to medical research... HA HA HA!
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Originally posted by BrownCoat2007:
'Bout the only thing I can offer at this time to this conversation is that I, too, belive that Simons nature is because of where he was raised... I personally see the core as being much more chinese than english based, culturaly and emotionally,
you have a very valid point. i just wish i was educated enough to bring that into my fics in a genuine way... hhm - time for some MORE book learning!
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I meant the "underground" AKA a guard at the academy is the one with the gambling debts.
Simon is looking for a way into the facility. The guard contacts him with a big ass story about how his movement has infiltrated the academy. A way for him to remain anonymous.
Another reason to trust Simon is that River is a reader. And I do not buy into this "masking" ability that many fics lead into. You cannot control what you think. If it was Simon's fault or if Simon bore some responsibility, she would know.
Instead, she thinks very highly of him.
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