Controversial Mal characterization
POSTED BY: SpaceAnJL
UPDATED: Saturday, January 3, 2009 06:12
VIEWED: 42749
PAGE 10 of 12
Hoperules - wow, excellently worded. That is very much what I think - Mal exists in his little world. To give himself control.
Quote:I'm just a bad baaaad person.
Originally posted by jetflair:
Gorram you! :mutters: How can you disagree with me?
Quote:Whereas I like my fictional men dark and broody... as long as there is ample fun-making of the dark broody stereotype LOL! Joss is just the master for making this happen, first with Angel, then with Mal. Although, I never did find Angel all that attractive. Maybe it's the forehead.
I reckon I do have a rather sunnier outlook on Mal than you do. Maybe it's the fact that I so adore that noble and cheerful young man :)
Quote:Absolutely - I'm with you on that! He did like the exhibitionist part of it quite a lot... now, is that a bit of Nathan sneaking through? LOL!
He enjoyed that altogether too much for it to have been entirely a cover.
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I think it's the dichotomy between the dark and broody and the noble and cheerful that grabs me about Mal...the best of both fictional worlds rolled into one. The fact that he's dark and broody but can still be cheeful and kind....oh yeah!
Now, if it were real life, I'd probably marry Wash. But I'd have one mad crush on Mal.....
"Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you when she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home." .......We love you, captain.
"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence and then.....explode"
www.serenityverse.com - Zoe necklace replicas, Serenity dogtags, jewelry, image gallery w/ custom DVD covers, other goodies!
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Ain't that the truth. Maybe marry Wash after a stormy and torrid affair with Mal... Mmm, I should write me some Mary Sue fic!
Originally posted by jetflair:
Now, if it were real life, I'd probably marry Wash. But I'd have one mad crush on Mal.....
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
If you, Mal4Prez, write too broody of a Mal, and you, Jetflair, write too sunny of a Mal, could possibly a collaboration of sorts occur, then all of your fans would receive a Mal that to all extents and purposes, would be the "perfect" Mal - at least outside of Joss's mind. That could tide us over until we get the sequels, right? Not that both of you write anything other than wonderful fic - some of the best out there for sure, but collaboration can be very interesting, especially at the level of talent you both have. Can you see I'm desperate for more Firefly?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by jetflair:
I think it's the dichotomy between the dark and broody and the noble and cheerful that grabs me about Mal...the best of both fictional worlds rolled into one. The fact that he's dark and broody but can still be cheeful and kind....oh yeah!
I'm right with you (as I'm sure you well know
). It is the presence of both aspects of Mal that I find so compelling, and more specifically, which aspect of Mal surfaces under which situations, and why. It is a fascination that both Inara and Book admit to sharing, so I guess we're in good company!When I think of those contradictions of Mal's character, I find myself looking back at his childhood. That fleeting glimpse of his Mama and the family of ranch hands she created, and the obvious comfort he found in God... these things helped build him a strong, solid foundation, with footings dug in to bedrock. A foundation of who he is, what's right and wrong, and what is important in life. So he grew into the God revering man with his homilies and ideals and tales of glory, aided in life by his inborn determination and leadership skills (and humor!).
After Serenity Valley, when the edifice of his character is gutted and destroyed, what survives is that foundation of who he was. When he rebuilds himself following that devastation, it's in a different style than his earlier self: the materials are different, the structure, the design... but underneath, the fundamental shape of his self is determined by that solid foundation. Those core values are still there, because they are the shape of him. The belief in God is still there. What's changed is how he's decided to react to God and those values. He never truly escapes them, because of the solidness with which they were laid.
"None of it means a damn thing."
I think River's insight into Mal's thinking shows us both what allows Mal to be as happy as he is, and what keeps him from greater happiness. I think it is a way of thinking he's applied to all of those things that damn well do mean something - the things that mean so much, the only way to deal with their loss is the denial of their importance.
His adoption of that belief allowed him to survive and keep moving after losing the faith that had carried him through the war itself. But it also blurred the boundaries of who he was, and what he would allow himself to do, letting him take that step from technical criminality to outright thievery. It allows him to be the stone cold killer, the thief, the mean old man, while it holds him back from getting to that healthier, happier place.
While that attitude may be too vital to his ability to handle the darkness for him to release it, it could also just be habit at this point, having served its purpose and usefulness during the crisis of the post-war period and only serving to hold him back now. But either way, it is a denial of himself, a lie, that seems to make him find his own behaviors a bit confounding at times.
I think he has managed to get himself to a relatively happy a place on Serenity, striking a balance between the man he was, and the hard man he had to become. He's not still fighting the war, he's not swallowing a bullet. Instead, he's created a family around him, where he can enjoy the warmth and pleasure of companionship, the strength of leadership, and a purpose for carrying on. He's lost in the woods, but as he's explained, that is because that is where he needs to be for things to be clear to him. Where the choices are easier because they are all a matter of survival.
But I do think Mal can find greater happiness. People grow, things change, stuff happens. Stuff happened in Serenity, and as has been pointed out, he seems to be in a whole new place after that. Someplace where he can see a path without being in the woods, perhaps. Someplace where some of it does mean something. So I think there is room for growth and hope in the more personal and relationship areas of his life. (Discounting, of course, Joss's in
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Nosadseven, that was as brilliant summary of Mal's character as I've ever read. Now I understand the "Lost in the woods" analogy - perfect for a PTSD survivor. And "None of this means a damn thing" now has a deeper, sadder poignancy to it than ever before. Thanks for your wonderful insights!
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Great reading, nosadseven, And I do agree with everything you wrote.
I think it is hard to ignore Mal's character arc in the film.
He does the right thing for the right reason and it makes all the difference. He helps the Tams, balances the scales of justice and shows us who he really is. And at the end...he has his ship in the sky, new family members, and the lady he loves is circling.
Joss keeps saying the movie is about "belief".
IMHO believing in your self is the best place to start. Good advice from the Shepherd.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I agree completely. In fact, I'm working on a very positive view of Mal in a post-BDM version of the 'verse. Basically, if Serenity Valley ripped Mal's faith from him, I think that Miranda forced it back into him. The death of Shepherd Book, the kindness of his former enemy in the Operative... I think those might actually have him looking at faith again, if not entirely in God, at least a little more faith in mankind, which would still yield a less dark person, less "hollowed out inside" as Joss put it. I'm trying to do it very realistically, but I guess ya'll can be the judge of that when I finish the story (though no promises on when that'll be).
jW
"Yep, that went well."
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I don't think that's the difference here. Jetflair has plenty of shadows and brooding in her Mal, and... well... I've tried to give him banter and humor whenever I can, although events in my fic have not allowed a ton of that. But even in my latest, my take on the first U-Day, I have him dark and violent, but still cracking jokes. May not be so funny, but I tried!
Originally posted by Katesfriend:
If you, Mal4Prez, write too broody of a Mal, and you, Jetflair, write too sunny of a Mal...
I think the real difference between jetflair and I is Mal's state of healing. She's been doing an exploration of the time after the war in which he faces his demons then, and so he's pretty much got himself together by the time he buys Serenity. (Correct me if I'm over-simplifying jetflair! I'm going by what you've posted here, though I know your fic isn't done...)
Now, I'm more in nosadseven's school of thought, that Mal is not healed at the time of the series. He's getting by on a strong foundation from a steady childhood, and he's got his leadership and humor and cleverness intact. But all that is sitting over some pretty serious hurt that he's doing his best to avoid. "it is a denial of himself, a lie, that seems to make him find his own behaviors a bit confounding at times" Yay - exactly! (Dang - why don't you write fic NSS?)
Have to say, if my fanfic version of Mal doesn't fit every bit of what NSS said, then it's because I haven't expressed myself clearly LOL! I can't agree more with her take.
Anyway, to really heal so that he can live life fully, Mal needs something to knock him out of his comfort zone and force him to face up to his issues. Which won't be fun for him, but it's the only way he can truly recover. The movie did this for him. I think that's River's role, to force him out into the big world again. Which maybe is why I'm writing a version of the `verse without the movie, so I can explore that arc my own way.
Oh - and no one would want to collaborate with me! I'm too slow and opinionated, I think I'd drive the other writer nuts LOL!
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
So essentially, The war amplified some of his traits and blurred others? I get that.
His sense of loyalty and honour, while there before the war, is magnified while his sense of religion and some of it's finer points gets blurred. So this would allow him to justify some of the shadier jobs he takes as long as it involves sticking it to the Alliance. But in the same breath, as in the Train Job, once he finds out how the 'job' affects regular people, he has a change of heart because it contradicts his heighened sense of honour.
That sound about right? Robin Hood Syndrome?
_______________________________________________________________
"Got a headful of lightning
And a heart full of rain
And I know that I said
I'd never do it again
Oh and I love you sweet baby but I always take the long way home."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME