Controversial Mal characterization
POSTED BY: SpaceAnJL
UPDATED: Saturday, January 3, 2009 06:12
VIEWED: 42749
PAGE 9 of 12
Quote:
Originally posted by schooner:
He and his people did do the impossible, held the Valley to the point where the Alliance practically had to nuke it to dig them out. In Mal's mind, that't a point that the Alliance needs to be reminded of.
Bingo. You just expressed it perfectly. There are many reasons Mal might have named his ship Serenity, and as an act of defiance makes the most sense to me, I think. Still not totally sure, but...."This job I would do for free."
"Neener neener, we held the valley," seems very Mal ;)
"Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you when she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home." .......We love you, captain.
"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence and then.....explode"
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Plenty of good thoughts and discussion points.
Quote:
Originally posted by jetflair:
I agree with you to an extent about Zoe, and it goes back to nine people seeing nine different things. There is a deleted scene with Zoe talking to Simon, telling him how Mal lost his humanity and mercy in Serenity Valley. It really nagged at me for a while, because everything in me screamed "No, that's not true!"
Serenity Valley hurt Mal deeply, I believe that. But not the way she put it. Seems to me she tries, just like everyone on the ship, to understand certain things about Mal. Sometimes they understand him right, sometimes they understand him wrong.
I am 114.7% in agreement. (that means totally)
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But I have to (probably) disagree about it affecting him less......tell me this isn't a pretty devastated Mal:
Not saying he wasn't devastated. What I was suggesting is that the devastation did not end there. The time after that was also harder on him than on Zoe.
The actual loss of Serenity probably did hit Mal harder. he was the commanding sergeant. He ordered people to their death. Now pointlessly it seems. Being in command in such a situation will hit a person hard. It was his decisions. If he gave up earlier, would more people have lived? That is something Zoe - being under his command - cannot ever feel.
What I am suggesting is that he kept on getting hit after being knocked down. Far worse than Zoe did or even knows about.
There is the possibility that Mal may look back at Serenity Valley with nostalgia. It was a time when he had purpose. Before he lost everything. Where he was actually happy doing his duty. A time before the rest of the cr*p hit him.
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The not-bitterness....I see that as partly Mal's having moved on, having healed to an admirable extent. The other part....this is the Mal who asks Niska if he's starting a book club. This is the Mal who dodges enemy fire grinning and whooping and cracking jokes about "they don't like it when you shoot 'em." Mal has a playful attitude towards life, and while it sometimes falters, he never loses it completely.
yeah, his playfulness is really hard to write. I always thought of it that they have been through such hardship, they see normal life-risking as nothing. But then again he had that cockiness in the flashback, so I am wrong.
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How many people react this way to being stripped naked and being dumped in the desert for their crew to find?
But you forget the initial rage against Saffron. This was later when he had cooled down, found out the job had gone well.
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Heck, how many of us would think to write this as his reaction? How many comments do you think we'd get calling it unrealistic or out of character?
Plenty. I am guilty as charged.
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I'm not sure it was rage. It seemed more like very justified name calling. Mal know about the con so I doubt he was surprised it went well.
May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.
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Mal is smiling in that shot because, for one gorram time, the plan is actually working out the way it's supposed to. "Trash" plays on the audience sharing Saffron's POV: that, just like always, Mal & Co are going to commit some dangerous crime and then end up without the swag.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
I don't want to give any spoilers away, but I think you'll like the new CE commentary, NBZ.
Ron and Nathan try to pry some info out of Joss(for our benefit, I'm sure) and Joss is like NO, NO, WRONG, WRONG and NO and WRONG again!
He definitely has things planned out, like you said, and he's not giving it to us until he's ready. He does slip at times, but he catches himself quickly. I had to hit the back button a few times.
I think I will enjoy it too. I just need it to be released in the UK.
One thing I like about Joss recently is that he seems to have got some desperation back. For the past year or so, he has been pretty nonchalant. He has gone from "I don't care. If they ask me, I will make it" to "I wanna continue this tale. Even if it is on radio" (That is from the Amazon interview).
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
The actual loss of Serenity probably did hit Mal harder. he was the commanding sergeant. He ordered people to their death. Now pointlessly it seems. Being in command in such a situation will hit a person hard. It was his decisions. If he gave up earlier, would more people have lived? That is something Zoe - being under his command - cannot ever feel.
What I am suggesting is that he kept on getting hit after being knocked down. Far worse than Zoe did or even knows about.
There is the possibility that Mal may look back at Serenity Valley with nostalgia. It was a time when he had purpose. Before he lost everything. Where he was actually happy doing his duty. A time before the rest of the cr*p hit him.
Okay, I'm agreeing totally with that :D Well, you've read my fanfic, so you kinda know my take on that period ;)
Zoe probably suffered more in the moment - the defeat of losing the war, the physical suffering of being abandoned in the valley, the heartbreak of being among the dead and the dying. The actual events were the traumatic ones for her.
For Mal, I'm thinking it was the ramifications that hurt the worst. The loss of lives under his command, the question of whether the fight was worth it, the fact that the universe including him was going to have to live under Alliance rule, the question of whether he could have fought smarter or better and somehow changed the outcome, the shaken/destroyed faith......
"Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you when she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home." .......We love you, captain.
"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence and then.....explode"
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Another way of looking at it is Mal's sense of humor is one of his greatest survival strategies. Anything less than an incredible sense of humor would lead most people in Mal's state to end it all quickly, or get someone else to end them. You can either laugh or cry or rage at most situations. How we react is the only choice we get to make. And that choice defines us as to our character. Mal's character is just a little quirkier than most.
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Quote:I'm totally with you on this. It's true of most of Joss's characters, that they can always find humor in a very dark place, and that helps them survive the crap that Joss puts them through. The odd mix is what makes his shows so damned entertaining!
Originally posted by Katesfriend:
Another way of looking at it is Mal's sense of humor is one of his greatest survival strategies.
And of course, we must keep in mind that this *is* a work of fiction, and Joss had to make it funny to draw in his audience. He remade the pilot to make Mal less dark and more snarky - on Fox's orders! But underneath, Joss has made it clear that Mal's a bitter, messed-up man who's lost touch with his former self. He's hollowed out - Nathan says that himself!
So sorry, jetflair, I have to lovingly disagree! (Don't hate me LOL!) I think Mal did lose his "humanity and mercy" in Serenity Valley (and possibly the events following, though I think that's more fannon.) Not completely - the noble, cheerful young man is still in there. River serves to help him find that inner hero again, and his journey from anti-hero to hero is the arc of his character.
Doesn't mean he can't be playful. His cheer in Trash seems perfectly in character to me - he'd never admit to being humiliated. I mean, he won the overall battle with Saffron, but she snookered him into getting naked. Rather than admit the little defeat, he plays it up with an overblown lack of embarrassment. He's often doing that around Inara. (bobbly headed dolls, bwaaa!, etc)
Schooner: displaying the name as a dig at the Alliance - excellent take on it! Kind of like walking around in his uniform all the time as a way of giving the Alliance the finger. Totally works for me.
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Here is my theory about Mal. Losing the War broke him - broke his faith, his heart, his spirit. However, he couldn't change. He is who he is. Therefore, in order to stay sane, he makes his world really small, small enough he can protect it. Maybe he could not win the war, but he could keep Serenity and its crew flying and free. It is the primary motivation for most of his actions. If he considers someone crew, he would do everything he could to protect them. If not he does not, they are semi-expendable. I do think this attitude changes over time and especially in the movie.
I've often thought that a better response to the Zoe question about leaving no man behind is, "Well, he wasn't our man."
May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.
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Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
So sorry, jetflair, I have to lovingly disagree! (Don't hate me LOL!) I think Mal did lose his "humanity and mercy" in Serenity Valley (and possibly the events following, though I think that's more fannon.) Not completely - the noble, cheerful young man is still in there.
Doesn't mean he can't be playful. His cheer in Trash seems perfectly in character to me - he'd never admit to being humiliated. I mean, he won the overall battle with Saffron, but she snookered him into getting naked. Rather than admit the little defeat, he plays it up with an overblown lack of embarrassment. He's often doing that around Inara. (bobbly headed dolls, bwaaa!, etc)
Gorram you! :mutters: How can you disagree with me? ;) All people I respect must agree with me to validate my sense of self-worth. :mutters more:
I reckon I do have a rather sunnier outlook on Mal than you do. Maybe it's the fact that I so adore that noble and cheerful young man :)
I agree to an extent that the lack of embarrassment is a cover....almost as yet another act of defiance towards life and circumstances. "You think *this* is going to embarass me? #$%@ you!" So, yes, a mite overblown, but I also see it as more of a conscious choice and not just a cover.
I think he decided not to be embarrassed about jumping out of his skin every time someone comes around a corner, or about facing his crew stark naked. He enjoyed that altogether too much for it to have been entirely a cover.
"Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you when she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home." .......We love you, captain.
"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence and then.....explode"
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