Jayne - more than guns and muscles?
POSTED BY: SpaceAnJL
UPDATED: Sunday, September 2, 2007 08:28
VIEWED: 12779
PAGE 3 of 5
I'm with SA on this. Jayne is a whole lot more then he appears to be. It takes the right motivation to see what Jayne is capable of. Usually, money is his motivation, so you do see the greedy side. But what if Jayne did find that special someone that rocked his world? What would a man like Jayne do for someone he really cared for? He's not always such a big hard ass. Look at the way he was right at Rivers side during the beggining of the BDM when River starts pitching a fit about the reavers. Or the little bonding scene with Simon during Mal's misbehaving speech. Even putting himself in harms way to bring Zoe back to (somewhat) safety in the final battle, when he could have just left her out there to die. I think we would have seen more of what Jayne was about if we had more time with Firefly. I really think we would see a new side to Jayne given the right situation. For example, if Early did (god forbid) hurt Kaylee in that way, after the anger wore off, I think we would have seen a more caring Jayne. He even showed disgust at what was done to River in that scene in Ariel when Simon is doing the scan and explains to Jayne what it showed.
Sorry for such a long response. Just thought I'd put my two cents in. I think we'de see big changes in some of the crew after the fight at Mr. Universe's. I hope sometime we do get to see them on a screen somewhere!smile:
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Hunh. I find this a little confusing. I guess I agree with SA that Jayne is certainly not just "big dumb comic relief," and any fic that draws him as such isn't doing him justice. The series was quite clear that there's more to him. I mean, there was a whole episode dedicated to him and his conscience, right? And though he's clearly self-interested and greedy, a major subplot delves into his idea of loyalty. SA - again I agree - he really thought that turning in the Tams was a loyal thing to do for Mal, and he had to learn differently. (But didn't Mal show trust when he didn't kill Jayne? He kept him on the ship and didn't tell folks what he'd done. That's trust!)
So, yeah, there was an arc for Jayne, a bit of a change in his character. There's potential for more self-realization in his future. But saying that giving him depth, making him 3D, means he has to "grow" past what he is in the series and movie, is silly. He's got plenty of depth already!
Actually, the most common OOC Jayne I see in fic removes complexity by making him too good. Bores me to death. I love Joss's verse because the bad guys aren't always bad and the good guys aren't always good. I'm with Causal - I want Jayne to betray the crew or something. I want his bad side explored, instead of cast side so that he can make a proper lover in a romance fic.
But then I'm biased - we all know how I feel about romance fics... *yawn* LOL!
*Running away to hide from the retaliatory flames...*
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>But what if Jayne did find that special someone that rocked his world?
Oh, I dunno. I haven't seen much evidence of anything more than grenades rocking Jayne's world. :)
Well, and the occasional whore.
Doesn't mean he can't grow and change over time, but, really, he's a grown man, he isn't going to be doing much changing, and certainly not instantly.
I can't really say more than Mal4Prez already did. I tend to agree.
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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The thought I always have in the back of my head when I write for Jayne is that, in the end, he's just a really big kid. He likes his fancy toys, it doesn't bother him in the slightest to get into a dust-up, and he'll take whatever he thinks he can get away with. But, like a kid, there are people he looks up too, people he looks out for, and people that he likes.
Keeping his eternal childishness in mind has made it very easy to make him make very inappropriate (Jayne-ish, even) comments at very inappropriate times, without breaking the character that Baldwin gave him.
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I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a damn long wait for a train don't come.
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
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Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Hunh. I find this a little confusing. I guess I agree with SA that Jayne is certainly not just "big dumb comic relief," and any fic that draws him as such isn't doing him justice. The series was quite clear that there's more to him. I mean, there was a whole episode dedicated to him and his conscience, right? And though he's clearly self-interested and greedy, a major subplot delves into his idea of loyalty.
So, yeah, there was an arc for Jayne, a bit of a change in his character. There's potential for more self-realization in his future. But saying that giving him depth, making him 3D, means he has to "grow" past what he is in the series and movie, is silly. He's got plenty of depth already!
B]
When I asked if the character couldn't grow, I really meant that couldn't we have few more fics that explore those aspects we did see some of in the series.
I agree with the idea of Jayne's big kid qualities. Mind you, I think that's being male, most of the time.
Watch any group of grown men with a barbecue/ new car/new gadget. Jayne just doesn't bother with the trappings of polite society. He's what most men trapped in a suit and office would like to be. (According to husband, anyway. Who got very bolshie during the recent water crisis, and wanted to build a bunker in the garage.)Mind you, these threads are basically me trying to condense lines of argument that I usually take several chapters to explore. But if you swine won't read the damn things...
SpaceAnJL: Professional Jayniac, inflicting fanfic since 2005...
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
When I asked if the character couldn't grow, I really meant that couldn't we have few more fics that explore those aspects we did see some of in the series.
Which I heartily agree with! And I must say, from what I've read, you do write a fantastic Jayne!
But it does seem like some folk's idea of growth in Jayne means he should fall head over heals in love, as if the only way to make him fully 3D is to have him lavish some lucky woman with affection. Personally, I prefer the man with his bad side showing, and I'm not real interested in seeing him tackle domesticity. I don't think it suits him well.
Jamesthedark: I see Jayne more as a big ole dog. Never got properly trained. Dopey and entertaining at times, but also can be mean and wild. It's his nature to kinda like having a lead dog to keep him in line. Which, of course, is Mal.
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I believe we did see enormous growth from Jayne in Serenity. At the end, when he's lying wounded with a bullet next to wounded Zoe...he asks her if she thinks he did it. "You think Mal got the word out?"
The "old" Jayne would not have given a rat's patoot about doing that sort of thing unless he was getting paid. Book's death changed him I believe, and he showed real leadership during the firefight with the Reavers.
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Jayne reminds me so much of my students. He starts out thinking of himself and what he wants to the exclusion of all else and his social skills are horrifying. Being with Mal and the others he learns so much...like you can't offer to trade a gun for a woman( even if the gun has a name) because she's a person. It's not ok to rat out crew mates for money. If you can't do something smart, do something right. Jayne really progresses from a self centered mercenary who only fights for money or for himself to a man who'd risk everything to find the truth for an emotionally wounded girl and then risk it all again to bring the truth to people and stop a cover up...that's a long way!
"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I believe we did see enormous growth from Jayne in Serenity...
I think that was more over having his death mean something than having changed in any way. Just like in Jaynestown he found that kid's death disturbing. He is not made of stone. He does have some feelings. Which make him him.
Apart from that I doubt Jayne "grew" at all in The BDM - except for him finally meeting some reavers.
In a situation of violence you can generally count of Jayne - even when he is drugged up to his eyeballs. Totally in character and no real change IMO.
Did Book's death hit Jayne? Probably. Will it scar him for the rest of his life? probably not.
(All IMO because I am know to get these types of things wrong...)
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I see him (like MSG mentioned) as the child of the crew. Not that he will grow beyond much of what he already is. But (trying to remember previous post) he hasn't matured yet despite him actually being one of the older crew members. Chances are he'll never fully mature. Even he mentioned that a life like his don't last too long. In his line of work he is already an old man. But who else can eventually see him as the head man of his own little tribe of hell raisers?
(Raises hand)
Why not? He likes women. He probably has a few rug rats runnin' round he might be unaware of.
I also think he is comfortable on Serenity for the time being because he feels safe. He doesn't get paid particularly well, he works harder than everyone else when they have a job, and he'd more than likely have gave Mal and the others a cut of his earnings for being a rat to make up for his indiscrecion. Though now he know a bullet is his thank you if he ever tries it again. His fear keeps him on Serenity where, regardless of the situation, the crew has his back because they rely on each other so much.
But these are just my observations on a fictional character as experienced with real world people.
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