Jayne - more than guns and muscles?
POSTED BY: SpaceAnJL
UPDATED: Sunday, September 2, 2007 08:28
VIEWED: 12779
PAGE 2 of 5
Quote:
Originally posted by Romanceguru:
I guess someone has to play devils advocate, and you make a strong argument.
Thanks :)
As always the question is why he would want to change. Provide a realistic reason and scenario, and he can change. But I have not seen one that I agree with. (same goes with the rest of the crew except Simon, River and possibly Kaylee - who probably do not need as much to change an aspect of their character, but still unlikely.)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Is this the thread where I reiterate my belief that Joss was gonna have Jayne betray them all come the end of season 2?
He was gonna have someone killed. No idea if it would be Jayne, but I am sure he would left a few options open. Maybe the actor asking for the highest wage?
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Welcome. : )
I guess I don’t see it so much as a why, but more of a natural progression of conscious.
After all, Jayne has a family somewhere, and therein lies the foundation for such values. Maybe he forgot them along the way, but I think slowly, this group is reminding him of what’s true. Perhaps just the craving to be apart of this mismatched family in the sky could be motivation enough? I kinda got that feeling towards the end of the BDM.
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"Jayne, your mouth is talking. You might want to look to that."
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What's a 'stretch' or 'rediculous' is when people have him change instantly instead of grow over time into a believable 3 dimensional character.
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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NBZ, excellent post. I couldn't agree more with what you've said.
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Is this the thread where I reiterate my belief that Joss was gonna have Jayne betray them all come the end of season 2? Jayne's a bad guy--albeit a funny one. I would love to see a fanfic where Jayne sells them all out. Now that would be some great character development!
I actually started an outline for a fic that used that exact idea, but I JUST couldn't see him truly betraying even Simon and River after the end of the BDM.
. . .or - maybe I just didn't want to write a Jayne heavy fic, which it would have had to be to make it convincing :)
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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i find jayne a very enigmatic character - so easy to put into a comic box (after all adam balwin's excellent and naturally humorous performance should be reflected)... yet there is more - he has feelings and they should be explored BUT there is genuine danger/violence in him - and i certainly lean more to your view (nbz)of him than most. i'm trying to work this through at the moment in about face pt 2- and would appreciate feedback.
on the run!
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Is this the thread where I reiterate my belief that Joss was gonna have Jayne betray them all come the end of season 2?
He was gonna have someone killed. No idea if it would be Jayne, but I am sure he would left a few options open. Maybe the actor asking for the highest wage?
About that last line, I think that most people think right off that it's Jayne whats gonna be killed. Either that or Wash, seeing as Joss managed to kill him off in Serenity. I think the Wash one is pretty likely, but I don't know for certain. Does anyone know?
Oh, and for something that actually relates to this post: I think Jayne might be able to grow, but he'll have to have a reason to. Also, he won't want to admit to being wrong, so he'll probably try to hide it.
River: "The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vaccuuming systems."
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My money for "most likely to be doomed to extinction" would be on either (prime candidate)Book or ('cause it would hurt Mal more) Inara. Neither of them are that central to most of the plots, and neither fulfill essential roles on the ship.
Simon became useful, River provides way too much potential for storyline, Kaylee makes things go, Wash makes the ship head in the right direction and is humor break guy albeit running a tight third as others can pilot, Jayne is a useful foil, Zoe is indispensable, and Mal owns the ship.
Okay, that's the obvious line of argument. As we all know Joss and associates are fond of not using the obvious option. Maybe he'd get tired of the turnipy smell and off Mal...
Jayne? Definitely some progress with room to grow. There was a deeper layer to him that we got glimpses of, and he was not irredeemable. If he'd just been 2D I wouldn't love the character as much as I do. (Not nearly as much as SA, mind you.) He's tough to write well.
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I assume I'm the SA alluded to in your above post? Guilty as charged. 
You see, I don't think being a big, violent maniac is necessarily a bad thing, particularly not in the world these guys live in. In the Core worlds, yes, he'd be scary (would anyone like me to post that little ficlet?) but on the raggedy edge, he's the ideal candidate for survival. Mal uses him as a very effective tool for extracting info from Dobson ('pain is scary') and also from Badger ('spill your guts or I might let Jayne do it' 'oh,yeah'). And he doesn't hesitate to order him to lock things down when there's trouble in OoG. Part of the anger in 'Ariel' came, in my opinion, from the fact that Mal did feel personally betrayed by the man.
I'll agree with the idea that Jayne will change if he wants to, but I also think that (to the eyes of an obsessive anyway) there are signs of a more complex character throughout. I loved him braiding Helen's hair in HoG. The turtle in the lost script 'Dead or Alive'. The way he was cheerfully cooking in OiS. Yes, he's a grown man, and probably set in his ways. But it is possible to take a hardened case with occasional anti-social tendencies and persuade them that getting up to make the tea is their own idea. I'm married to one. Jayne is never going to be fluffy. We don't want fluffy. We want the kind of bloke that will cheerfully smash up a bar if someone spills his pint. Or your pint...
Of course, Jayne has survived as long as he has, because he doesn't question every action. You stop and worry about your shot, you're a dead man. He questions Mal on occasion, which I think is because he's not military, and automatically obedient, but he tends to do what the Captain orders when it is a matter of direct action. Making Jayne overly cuddly and navel gazing would do the character a disservice, and probably make for the same kinda life expectancy as the Doc walkin' into some of the rougher neighbourhoods on Persephone.
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