Jayne - more than guns and muscles?
POSTED BY: SpaceAnJL
UPDATED: Sunday, September 2, 2007 08:28
VIEWED: 12779
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Just been reading a few other threads on characterization, and it struck me - most folk just see Jayne as the big dumb violent comic relief.
Which is fair.
But can't the man ever grow? I don't mean end up the cuddly teddy bear. (He's definitely more a Kodiak.) But he can't go through the whole arc of the series and still be the big dumb selfish gunhand. That makes him a cutout, and does a great disservice to both the writing and AB's portrayal.
Yeah, I'm biased. But if everyone else gets a shot at changing their lives, shouldn't we at least consider that Jayne might begin to realise that there are some things in the 'Verse you can't buy, and shouldn't even try to?
(However, inconsistent to the last, I still can't cope with Jaylee or Rayne - but this is because I can't see the characters ever forming that kind of attachment.)
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Jayne has grown. Just not a great deal.
He's learning about family.
And trust.
He can't try to get rid of River anymore though or he's out!!! 
I don't think he would have tried again in the series but the movie needed to show that side of him.
He and Simon came to an understanding in 'Trash' after Jayne hurt his 'pine.
i.e. in the BDM when he says to Simon,
"I think it's noble as a grape the way you look to River. But..."
Joss obviously decided he had no feelings of loyalty towards River yet. They have not come to an understanding like he and Simon did. River may have to save his life or at least make him some money! 
Politics is the showbiz of industry.
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I always thought that Jayne's attempt to sell River out was motivated by a rather dumb and ill-thought out idea that he was protecting his crew, which was backed up by notes in the FF OVC II. He's sort of getting the idea of crew and family, just not in the fine detail.
I think that scene at the end of 'Trash', where Simon is calm and deadly, was absolutely brilliant.
My personal take on it, is that River understands Jayne very well. He fears what he doesn't understand, and fear makes him angry, and inclined to do something dumb. She could have killed him in the 'Maidenhead' (hell, she could have killed Mal, and why she didn't is a little something for another time) but she just settled for hurting his...pride.
And I went along with what you said, about how I think they come to an understanding. She finds a way to appeal to his self-interest, makes him indebted to her.
My take on the character is based very much on what I've gleaned from the Official Visual Companions, and repeated viewings. I gave him a homeworld and a family that I thought fitted.(And, on a lighter note, I just thought if Jayne were ever to settle with someone, it was gonna be someone who could cook!)
But I don't think Jayne is ever going to improve unless Mal shows that he trusts him a little. In the end, I think that's the coin that's really going to count, which is probably going to surprise Jayne as much as anyone else.
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Leaps and bounds. I see his growth just in the series as huge. Almost got misty the other day after seeing a shot of Jayne and Mal mulling over the death of the kid who was protecting his "hero". There is a specific frame where Adam completely captured the confusion and remorse rarely displayed by the character of Jayne. By the time they are headed for Miranda in the BDM you can see Jayne trying to choke down the natural option of cut and run because of the lack of pay for something no one will return from. He had already been given the order at Haven to help or suffer the consequences by the captain. The whole quoting Book thing is a confirmation that he actually believed in what they were doing regardless of the rammifications of their actions. That not acting will cost the same so why not make an actual differance. Would a person with the same characteristics as Jayne really accept being disintergrated by a large ship mounted weapon as opposed to fighting nose to nose with those who would end him. I see him as accepting the bloody stand as opposed to the blinding flash. For his kind pain makes you fight harder. It is a compass telling a person that they are still alive and there is still hope. Another day to chase tail and get paid.
He might not be the kind of person most folks particularly like or get along with. But he is someone you always want on your side in a fight. The most basic of squabbles are resolved with the most basic answers. Jayne is the basic answer to so many squabbles.
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Jayne was beginning to change. Ariel showed us that. The BDM showed us that.
" Here's a theory for you to disregard--"
Inara and Book were about the Past- their mystery was why they chose Serenity, what were they before, what led them to this?
Jayne was about the future-- what was he going to change into?
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I always kinda saw it that way. Maybe more of a progession of the parts of people that they don't really recognize. I just got done watching the Mal/Inara fanvid of What Hurts The Most:
and couldn't help but revel in the freedom of Inara's facial expression. I saw it in a way similar to you. Sometimes the mystery and wisdom gives way to truth and innocence. There is always somewhere to go and something to believe in. I hate that book is gone. But it is the absence of a moral compass that shows the true nature of a person. IRL I have been that person. And later, after talking with those I had to be away from, they were regetful that I was not there to help. After a while the regret seemed to become accusatory. Book could not have survived the BDM. It was a part of all the aspects as a whole that had to change. Their dynamic must be altered in order to facilitate true change within themselves. And the lost innocence of Wash. Not to say he was an angel by any means. But he is the only grown man capable of killing on the crew that does not do so. I exclude Simon because he is a doctor and of course Book 'cause of the Man Of God thing. Jayne has nowhere else to go. He has to fill a bit of the innocent and moral compass spot. I had to refer back to the JungleJulia fic posted where Jayne helps coach Zoe through childbirth. He says something that isn't divulged 'til later in the chapter.
When River asks what he said to get Zoe to give the last hard pushes he states, "I told her that the only way she could ever see Wash again is if she pushed."
Another fic I have grown accustomed to (but rarely see updates for) had the same teary effect on me. Someone had seen where Jayne was going and let us know who he is. Indeed he is the future and the hope we wish to see in future works of the 'verse.
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I hate that a lot of people like to have Jayne be very 2D or feel that anything outside his basic spectrum is "a stretch" or "ridiculous". I really want to put my foot up their ass until they can lick the bottom of my shoe.
_____
"You know that's gonna fall off."
-----Nathan Fillion (to me while drunk)
How are ships unlike food?
1. If you try it and don't like it, you don't have to do it again.
2. You can have as much as you want, when you want.
3. Cravings can be very specific.
I mean, hello it's not as if there's 'ship police?
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I will go against the grain and disagree.
Why can't he grow? He has grown. He is not a teen that has not lived. He is a grown man who has come to his point in life through experience.
Secondly, does he want to change? I doubt it. He wants the money, likes the violence. Besides it is probably darn comfortable knowing that if anyone was gonna double-cross anyone else, it would be him. Probably can sleep better in the night because of it.
So the main question is why would he want to.
He is not stupid. He has survived to where he has got, and is generally pretty smart about things that concern him. He may cross Mal, kick up a fuss, but how many of those times was he actually wrong? he said River was a risk. He was right.
I don't think he wants to change. He is not a child, and he will only change if he wants to.
He may not have much loyalty (otherwise he would have been caught along with Stitch Hessian), but he does have some. He needs to respect someone before he shows any loyalty. And he was sort of loyal from the start to Mal.
And then there are his vices. Greed being a big one. That is something that can be overcome intellectually (if eh wants to), but deep down he will still feel it.
Fear. He fears anything he does not understand. He may enjoy dishing out violence, but I doubt he would much resistance against torture. I think I have read two fics (one old one new) where he is tortured and he is superhumanly strong. Not gonna happen.
In the same way I doubt he has ever confronted Reavers face to face before.
But What about looo-ooo-ooove? (think War Stories). There is always the chance he had a sweetheart at some point in the past, soemthing that helped form who he is now. Things could have turned awry and now here he is. It will not happen head over heals again. He could meet someone he fell for, but not fluffy.
The thing is Jayne is an adult. We have to remember this. If he was - say - a 17 year old mercenary, he would change. but now has has a lot of livign under him to get him where he is.
So, is Jayne just a gun hand? no. (yes I am opposing my whole post. But not. See? clever.) he is a person. He has his religious side (YES). He has his thinking side (Jaynestown, The Message where he talks about what he expects of his life). He also has his love of violence ("Look - A scuffle!" with glee in the BDM). he is also a tracker, a gun hand, and a hard worker. You see all the stuff he is constantly moving around? THat is hard work. Then there is his hidden loyalty side (to Mal, maybe crew too, but the Tam's ain't crew. Not to him.)
He already has many dimensions, but he will not fundamentally change in any way IMO.
It is Ironic though that I see him dying doing something loyal.
PS I am not hating on Jayne. On the contrary, I like him. But I don't think I have read what I would call a realistic long term character study of Jayne. I think Mal and Jayne share A LOT of traits. Mal is just a little smarter about opening his mouth, and slightly more moral fibre.
(Sorry for repetition in there as I types it as I was thinking.)
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Is this the thread where I reiterate my belief that Joss was gonna have Jayne betray them all come the end of season 2? Jayne's a bad guy--albeit a funny one. I would love to see a fanfic where Jayne sells them all out. Now that would be some great character development!
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I guess someone has to play devils advocate, and you make a strong argument.
I personally have trouble seeing Jayne as a one-dimensional character incapable of growing and or learning from aforementioned life lessons.
In the end, Jayne has shown hesitancy, regret and moral comprehension. In no way do I think he’ll make the leap from sinner to saint (where’s the fun in that, really), but I think he could learn to be a pretty decent person. Decent as a thieving, greedy killer for hire can be, that is. Just below Mal decent.
I love my antiheroes.
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