Thank Joss for Subtext (aka. Ho!Yay!)

POSTED BY: JaynesGirlfriend
UPDATED: Thursday, December 21, 2006 00:46
VIEWED: 28827
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JAYNESGIRLFRIEND

Tuesday, October 8, 2002 6:38 AM

Yay! I get to start the thread celebrating the homoerotic subtext on the show! Cause why the heck should the posters at Television Without Pity have all the slashy fun.

So lets just get a few of the basic truths of Firefly out of the way.

1. Simon is gay.

2. Simon is really, really gay and has a huge crush on Captain Tight Pants.

3. Jayne just wants to be loved. By Simon..or Mal. Hell, pretty much anyone but Book and even that's negotiable. (C'mon, its Jayne we're talking about here.)

4. Kaylee and Inara were never talking about hair.

5. Simon is extremely gay.

Warning: In this thread we'll be talking about the possibility of relationships among crew members of the same sex. Its a big, gay party and if that doesn't float your boat, please, leave us in peace in the gutter. For we are happy here.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

ZICSOFT

Tuesday, October 8, 2002 4:41 PM

I'm not sure "subtext" is the right word. But it is true that Whedon has some interesting insights into the whole sexual identity thing, and is good at mining them for humor, irony, and the odd subplot. Which is just good storytelling, unless you a person who gets all crazy at the slightest implication of "deviance."

Which makes me wonder why we haven't heard more from the God Hates Fags types. I would have thought they'd be mounting a campaign to have Joss Whedon run out of Hollywood by now. I guess intolerance isn't as popular as it used to be.

Anyway, I'm sure that at a certain level, there's something to all your homoerotic "truths". There always is. But at the surface level, where the official stories get told, I think everybody is pretty thoroughly heterosexual.

Yeah, I know, Mal seems to think Inara is a gay. That's just his way of avoiding his own infatuation with her.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND

Wednesday, October 9, 2002 6:59 AM

Jeez, Z, leave it to you to suck all the fun out of imagining the crew of the Firefly in massive gay orgies.

Of course the case for the true existence of subtext is made stronger by the fact that this is a Joss show. Joss himself has said that almost all of the relationships on Buffy are romantic in nature at some level, so it just stands to reason that the same would be true of Firefly. In fact the gay subtext surrounding both Kaylee and Inara has been so thick it can hardly be called sub anything. Even if they never have a homosexual relationship on camera the subtext will still be there.

And if the followers of Ho!Yay! are really, really lucky, yummy slashy fan fiction will be written.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

ZICSOFT

Wednesday, October 9, 2002 2:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynesGirlfriend:
Jeez, Z, leave it to you to suck all the fun out of imagining the crew of the Firefly in massive gay orgies.

OK, my sexual preference is usually not a subject of online discussion. But I have to say: ewww! Or as Xander would say, "That's a scary place to go."

I did find that scene last week very funny. You know, the one where the girl says, "Did everybody at this table sleep with each other?" And Spike and Xander look at each other nervously.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

LOONYTOON

Wednesday, October 9, 2002 5:11 PM

Not everybody is gay, you shouldn`t contort the show to appeal to a very small minortity. And by the way, I don`t believe in god so whether or not he hates you I don`t know, but I know the homosexuals are unnatural, as humans are the only species on the planet that practices it, because humans want to believe them selves above nature. Give it a hundred years, you will most likely be killed off as evolution is not kind to those that cannot procreate(morally, at least).

an armed society is a polite society

HJERMSTED

Wednesday, October 9, 2002 5:29 PM

Quote:

but I know the homosexuals are unnatural, as humans are the only species on the planet that practices it, because humans want to believe them selves above nature.

Actually you are mistaken. There are all kinds variations in sexual behavior in the animal kingdom. I'm no zoologist, but I do remember learning about a species of ape that was fully bisexual. I was also surprised to learn dolphins tend to hump everything that moves whether it is also a dolphin or not.

CHARLIEBLUE

Wednesday, October 9, 2002 5:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by loonytoon:
Not everybody is gay, you shouldn`t contort the show to appeal to a very small minortity. And by the way, I don`t believe in god so whether or not he hates you I don`t know, but I know the homosexuals are unnatural, as humans are the only species on the planet that practices it, because humans want to believe them selves above nature. Give it a hundred years, you will most likely be killed off as evolution is not kind to those that cannot procreate(morally, at least).

Actually, homosexuality is well-known among other animals.
http://www.geocities.com/baggylevis/gay_nature.html

Also, not only gays can enjoy a show featuring gay people. I am not a thief, but I enjoy a show about thieves; I'm not a woman, but I enjoy several shows about women. I also enjoy a show about space ships, and they are most certainly unnatural.

And as for homosexuality being selected against, I direct your attention to sickle-cell anemia. Its victims die out, yet the disease persists. Why? Because the gene that creates it is beneficial in some circumstances.

ZICSOFT

Wednesday, October 9, 2002 7:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by loonytoon:
but I know the homosexuals are unnatural

You know, you're going to have to either learn to live with "unnatural" people, or give up on being a Joss Whedon fan. It's not that he has that many gay characters (though probably more than you would care to see). But he does do a lot of stories that play on issues of sexual identity. It's subtle enough that most people don't notice -- but now that you know what to look for, you'll probably see it all the time.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

ZICSOFT

Wednesday, October 9, 2002 7:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CharlieBlue:
[Also, not only gays can enjoy a show featuring gay people. I am not a thief, but I enjoy a show about thieves; I'm not a woman, but I enjoy several shows about women. I also enjoy a show about space ships, and they are most certainly unnatural.

If God had meant us to go into space... hmm.

I'm neither gay nor a woman, but the Buffy character I most identify with is Tara. The stammer, the "life in a shadow" thing -- very familiar. And if you can't be moved by her relationship with Willow -- well, that fits my definition of "unnatural".

It might suprise some of you to hear this, but I probably have just as many personal issues with homosexuality as does loonytoons. The difference between us is that I know my sexual preferences and dislikes are something that belong to me, not the natural order of the universe.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

ZICSOFT

Wednesday, October 9, 2002 8:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:

I was also surprised to learn dolphins tend to hump everything that moves whether it is also a dolphin or not.

The erotic obsession of dogs with human legs is well-established.

I'm told that some stock breeders actively dislike heterosexual bulls. Since most breeding is done by artificial insemination, they prefer bulls that are attracted to steers (commonly known as "queer steers") or inanimate objects, since that makes it easier to obtain the, uhm, product.

The big mistake Loonytoons makes is equating sex with reproduction. If that were true, Hugh Hefner would have to get a day job! It's true that sex is essential to reproduction, but reproduction is not all there is to sex. It has all kinds of social and (duh!) recreational functions.

Which is the big flaw in the "nature selects against homosexuality" argument. Only one sexual encounter in a thousand produces offspring. And even in dominately homosexual cultures, such as classical Sparta, that one contact is not that hard to arrange.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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