Beginning of BDM

POSTED BY: Lawman
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 08:54
VIEWED: 7660
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FREELANCERTEX

Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:06 PM

LOL I like it XD Thanks for the clarification.

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

DAVESHAYNE

Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by freelancertex:
LOL I like it XD Thanks for the clarification.

You're welcome. That really should be part of a faq somewhere but I'm not sure where it would be. Anyway it's not like we get tired of answering questions around here so maybe a faq ain't necessary.

David

"Looks like we got here just in the nick of time."

THEONETRUEBIX

Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:11 PM

For whatever it's worth (just to run back for a moment to the original issue), the movie itself provides evidence that the rescue depicted indeed is River's original rescue.

During the conversation between The Operative and Dr. Mathias, The Operative states that Simon "spent his entire fortune developing the contacts to infiltrate this place", to which Mathias adds "gave up a promising career in medicine too".

Those statements only apply in the event that the rescue was the original rescue, and not some later re-rescue -- since, in the event of a later re-rescue, Simon would have already long since lost his fortune and his career.

-----

"I beat up a couple of false b!Xes earlier."
-- Joss, 28 June 2007

TUJIAOZUO

Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:48 PM

Great mention of it being the original and not a re-rescue. Obviously a problem for those of us who interpret it and write it in our fics as a re-rescue.

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

WYTCHCROFT

Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:08 PM

having re-watched SAFE (coz of this thread)
i have to say that whole damn family is sinister!

(i'd forgotten how freaky they are with the letters.. mind you - Simon could be playing them in that scene -)

i'm sure there's more than meets the eye all around.

if you see a gap in the 'verse - Fics it!

EMMAZULE

Monday, August 27, 2007 9:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
I always suspected that Simon knew more than he was telling - his vague talk of an underground - himself being 'gifted' etc... but of course joss was just laying ground work - i bet there's many a red herring in Buffy S1 - but he got 7 years to work it through.

i wouldn't probably try to write it but i suspect some of the river / simon issues are being worked out by joss through the Fray and HER brother relationship in the Fray comics. And that is a dark one - a lotta F.F. fans shy from the potentials that joss would probaly excavate.

...

Are you serious? Um, WHAT?

First of all, spoiler-tag that. Not everybody's gotten to read it yet (I have, but I'm a slight Buffy addict)

Second:

Select to view spoiler:

Melaka and her brother are twins, not older and younger siblings, and her brother's an evil vampiric psycho messiah with a thing for Slayers who got all Melaka's prophetic past-vision things, while Melaka is the Slayer, and will eventually have to take him down. As in, kill him. Even if you think of it with the gender roles reversed, how come "Simon" now gets superpowers and is a risk-taker, and "River" is psycho, but not psychotic, and how come "Simon's" probably going to have to kill "River", despite the fact that in the original Firefly/Serenityverse, River is getting better? Not to mention Melaka has seemingly accepted the idea that she'll have to slay him. Simon seems incredibly adverse to letting River come to harm. And the fact that Melaka? Her twin's not even her only sibling, either! The dynamic is completely different. I have no idea where you're getting this from, really, except for them being siblings that were (once) close - which is also explored in a different way with Dawn and Buffy, and I swear to God if you try to put THAT pairing image in my head, I will kill you with my brain. :P

So yeah. I suspect you suspect wrong. o.O

DUKUSUKKER

Monday, August 27, 2007 10:07 PM

I guess because i saw the movie first, it really wasn't an issue for me. Though after many ("i'm going with...hundreds") of rewatches in the "correct" order, i wondered about Simon's hesitation to acknowledge River's psychic abilities. He's told outright by the alliance doctor in that scene that she is "not just a psyhic...she is a creature of incredible grace." It could be that he is just trying to protect her by concealing that information, but sometimes (depending on my moods when i'm watching) he truly appears to not believe it.

I just found that very interesting. Sorry if that was completely off topic and if it was discussed before. I'm new...and still catching up. Thanks all....

dukusukker
---------------------

"noah's ark is a problem..."

CRYSTALKEI

Monday, August 27, 2007 10:26 PM

ha! that makes sense...he doesn't really seem to believe RIver's psychic, but maybe he didn't really believe it from dr. mathias when he chatted with him at the beginning either.

of course, this whole thing doesn't bother me, i understand that in order to bring people in, joss had to tweak the canon a bit. so what? it just makes it a better movie for a new-comer.

Jayne Cobb, the Dick Casablancas of Firefly

NBZ

Monday, August 27, 2007 11:14 PM

There is also the fact that when the people in Safe found out they were going to burn her at a stake.

I could see the dread in his face when River was saying "...cannot talk. Her voice got scared away..." to that teacher person.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, September 28, 2007 6:23 PM

I've been seeing versions of this topic around here. I really don't see too much conflict.
Joss does not deny that River was being transported in a cryo box on the tube, and yet was not yet so in the BDM. Seperate stages of the escape/evade plan. And to have the craft at the top of the elevator shaft likely took gobs of credit and "a way to get them out of there" like Simon said in the pilot.
The BDM was not current-time, it was all on that archive recording, in the archive vaults, from (what was it, 8 months?) back before the Pilot.
On tube, the pursuers were the Alliance law, Police/military officials, etc.
On silver screen, the Operative was a new ingredient, and Book explained there would be no warrants, nothing official about him, closed files, nothing like Mal has ever seen before. The Operative just has the cops/military working under his direct.

The triggering event, differentiating the series and BDM, is apparently the eventual discovery by somebody in the ?Senate? ?Parliament? body (whom the Operative works for) that the Dr. had exposed members of the Cousular body to this mind reader, and then she'd escaped. They'd learned this from the Dr. saying so on the recording - the Operative stated that his sin was Pride, and exposing a top official to the mind reader River. This discovery changed River from a mere escapee to the-mind-reader-that-knows-our-biggest-Alliance-secrets (like Miranda) is-on-the-loose-and-must-be-reigned-in-or-stopped-NOW.
Thus the Operative is set into play, and fortunately River's new meds (and shoot-Mal-now gun) allow her to be coherent enough to lay it out for Serenity before the Operative gets to them. River kept saying that the Miranda memory was not hers. She got the Miranda memory from a top official of the Alliance, who had been in the Dr's lab with River.
That's why the Operative says at the coda "I told them the secret is broadwaved, no more point to terminate her" - but he doubts that will stop them.

In the series, Simon is always holding back info, waiting for trust. He starts off as a single passenger with crates, for gorrams sake. He always only tells them what he thinks is the minimal info he can get away with.

Hope that makes sense to you all like it does to me. I just don't see any inherent contradiction.

I always attributed the 8-month delay from River's escape to the Operative's involvement to bureaucratic red tape, and the Dr trying to disguise the severity of what/who had escaped.

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