Objects in Space

POSTED BY: Da
UPDATED: Monday, April 5, 2004 12:10
VIEWED: 9786
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CALDEEN

Thursday, April 1, 2004 7:22 AM

I belive the answer is even simpler. River just went into Jayne's bunk and picked up the gun. While Jayne doesn't "Leave his guns laying around." They are just hung on the wall above his bed behind that blanket. The only time I ever noticed the doors to the bunks being locked was when Early did so. I mean Zoe tells Wash he could stop Jayne by locking the door so it seems that they don't do so as a matter of routine even when making love.

The gun in OOG was not the same one from War Stories. The one in WS was some kind of longslide, and the one from OOG was a Desert Eagle.

I doubt Book is trying to set Jayne up. Book is smart enough to know that the only way to get Jayne off the ship now is to kill him. Mal can not put him off the way he did the first mechanic. Jayne knows to much and as soon as he was no longer part of the crew he would sell out Simon and River.

River's mind was altered so that she can not control her emotions. She feels everything. Like when you get ticked at someone who thinks you should move to let them merdge onto the highway. Instead of ramming them just to show you were have the right of way, you push the emotion down and slow down to let them in.

I like the theory about River seeing people's regrets. Hadn't thought of that. It does make sense though. Also that Kaylee doesn't have any real regrets. Becuase of being an open person, and the fact that she is young and hasn't really done much to regret.

I am not worried about the bullet with my name on it. Just the thousands marked "Occupant".

ZORIAH

Thursday, April 1, 2004 7:30 AM

Also don't forget that in Out of Gas there was a spare gun strapped to the mule which Mal was able to use to threaten the boarders with. It is possible that River came upon one of the 'stashed for emergency' firearms in the hold, while, in her minds eye, she thought she was in a tranquil place with leaves and twigs etc.

OBSESSED

Thursday, April 1, 2004 7:46 AM

I think she is picking up on what people are feeling at the moment. I'm also willing to believe that she might have kept the gun, left it out, and then happened on it again. She could also have just walked into Jayne's bunk and taken it. These theories make a lot more sense to me than Book leaving it out. People have said that he is the only one likely to, but if he has a violent past, then he would be just as careful as anyone else. We know he has knowledge of guns from his comments about the sniper rifles; he wouldn't be any more careless than anyone else. I know that Book has a mysterious, maybe sinister past, but that doesn't mean that he is conspiring against everyone. I think he really has moved on; he's had so many opportunities to betray all of them and has continually shown his loyalty.

I think it's more likely that it just got dropped when people were moving stuff. Maybe Jayne, Mal, or Zoe were cleaning their guns and dropped one without noticing, or maybe it was left unnoticed after one of the many firefights in the cargo bay. If it was dropped out of sight, it could have been bumped around when they were moving cargo and ended up in the open. I just don't think this is worthy of a conspiracy, since the real reason is probably just that they needed a reason to make River feel unwelcome, and the gun was a convenient way...............

Book: I'd forgotten - you're moonlighting as a criminal mastermind now.
Simon: No, but I'm thinking about growing a big black mustache. I'm a traditionalist.

STEALTH

Thursday, April 1, 2004 9:04 AM

I don't think Book was trying to set up Jayne by leaving the gun in the cargo bay.
I think River picks up on emotions/feelings that maybe on the surface as with Wash and Zoe or maybe hidden and non verbal and in Books case is something from his past before he repented and found God and I believe nothing to do with Jayne at all.
We as the viewer are presented with a snapshot of events not all the events but the ones that are important to the story.
We don't have a complete record of Rivers travels through Serenity hence no record when she got the gun or how or if it was in a hundred bits and she was able to put it togeather with her eyes closed or not.. only that she somehow managed to do it at some point.
Well my thoughts anyway

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Thursday, April 1, 2004 9:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ranger:
I get everything you're saying here, but I still find it odd that Kaylee is the only one River doesn't get a reading from, then she finds the gun in the same condition it was in just before her relationship with Kaylee changed (fully loaded, safety off, which is how it was just before River shot the three guys in War Stories). But hey, that's half the fun of the show, trying to figure out what is up with (fill in your favorite charators here).

Actually, she does get a reading from Kaylee, a great big stonking one - Kaylee looks right at her as I recall, and there is a certain detremined look in her eye.

"I threw up on your bed"

LJOSALF

Saturday, April 3, 2004 3:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by obsessed:
I think she is picking up on what people are feeling at the moment.

I agree that the "readings" in OiS have a more immediate feel and this is in large part why I think Book's "reading" refers to Jayne.

Quote:
I'm also willing to believe that she might have kept the gun, left it out, and then happened on it again.

But it's not the same gun as was pointed out earlier.

Quote:
She could also have just walked into Jayne's bunk and taken it. These theories make a lot more sense to me than Book leaving it out. ...if he has a violent past, then he would be just as careful as anyone else. We know he has knowledge of guns from his comments about the sniper rifles; he wouldn't be any more careless than anyone else.
I think it's more likely that it just got dropped when people were moving stuff. Maybe Jayne, Mal, or Zoe were cleaning their guns and dropped one without noticing, or maybe it was left unnoticed after one of the many firefights in the cargo bay. If it was dropped out of sight, it could have been bumped around when they were moving cargo and ended up in the open.

So Book isn't any more careless with guns than the rest of the crew who lose track of a fully-loaded weapon with the safety off plus kick it around for a while? Besides, it isn't the "crew" who have been "careless"; it's Jayne because it is his gun--he doesn't deny this. Seems to me Jayne is pretty careful with his weapons: in Safe he objects to the rough handling the marshall gives his weapons when Mal doesn't, for example; he clearly treasures Vera and he and Mal are the only two I recall actually cleaning and caring for their weapons.
No, how the gun got to the cargo hold is significant and so is the fact that none of the characters stops to figure it out.

As for Book being smart enough to know that the only way off the ship for Jayne was feet first, IIRC, the script direction for Book's "reading" is that the delivery is "lethal"....

(edited for formatting)

Ljosalf

The voyage of discovery is not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.
Marcel Proust (1871 - 1922)

JEBBYPAL

Monday, April 5, 2004 6:00 AM

Okay, very interesting discussion and nothing really new to add except that as I was reading through another interpretation of Book's "reading" by River occured to me. He says to effect "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not, so where does that leave you?"

-Although delivered as an accusation, it is interesting if interpretted in relation to his Christian background: Basically the statement could be in reference to how Jayne and others feel he judges them when in theory, christianity would argue not to judge the sinner because that's God's place. Just an idea to futher confuse the issue:) Maybe one day joss will write his memoirs to firefly and answer all of our questions if he never addresses them in any other form!

SGTZOOK

Monday, April 5, 2004 8:46 AM

It's seems to me, that in the pilot episode, when Simon jumped the Allience guy, the big handgun slid away and nobody bothered to pick it up. Perhaps no one accounted for it, it got lost amongst the equipment, only to show up again in "Objects".

ECGORDON

Monday, April 5, 2004 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SgtZook:
It's seems to me, that in the pilot episode, when Simon jumped the Allience guy, the big handgun slid away and nobody bothered to pick it up. Perhaps no one accounted for it, it got lost amongst the equipment, only to show up again in "Objects".

Dobson picked it up. It was the gun he was threatening River with, and Simon had his smaller gun. Mal then shot Dobson, but just because you never see anyone pick the gun up afterwards doesn't mean they didn't. There is at least six months narrative time, possibly more, between those two episodes, I doubt the gun would have been laying around there all that time.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

SOUTHERNMERC

Monday, April 5, 2004 12:10 PM

And Dobson's gun was gunmetal grey, not chromed like Jayne's gun is. Besides, Jayne claimed the weapon, and Mal clearly knew it was his.

One thing to remember, as had been stated earlier, is that whole opening sequence was from River's point of view. So she could, considering the amount of monkeying that the Alliance did to her brain, quite easily have "blackout" periods where she doesn't recall quite what she had been doing. Or possibly perceive going into Jayne's room and retrieving the weapon, loading it, then moving to the cargo bay and being discovered by the others without ever knowing just what EXACTLY she was doing. When the others called out to her, she became anchored again, and realized something was wrong. Oy, that girl has a rough road ahead of her.

Edited for grammar.

Jayne: "How big a room?"

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