Joss offers cautious hope for Big Damn Sequel
POSTED BY: xardoz
UPDATED: Thursday, August 16, 2007 21:38
VIEWED: 32069
PAGE 5 of 9
Joss is not one to get our hopes up and dash them, so I'm sure he's working hard to bring us back to the 'Verse one way or another.
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken
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Hi FollowMal,
You asked me to respond to the charges that I misquoted Joss, which I think are happening at Whedonesque re: Serenity's profitability.
I'd be happy to do so in any format, including here, but as I'm not a member over there I'm not sure how I could properly defend myself on that forum if you catch my drift..
Here is the exact quote from Joss, which I still have an audio recording of:
ME: Serenity, that was the last time we spoke.. and I kind of did some rough math and I figured that if it sold like a million DVDs it would be profitable but I don't have any idea of the inner workings.. is it a success to you or the studio? What's the final...
JOSS: It's a success to the studio or else they wouldn't be putting out a special edition DVD. And I know it's a success to the studio because they've actually admitted it on paper which as you know studios are always loathe to do, you know the "we lost money on Batman" rule... but um, and that was theatrical actually. Theatrical was a disappointment as everybody knows but it did go into the black, ironically, and then it did go to DVD and they took me aside and they said "We can not keep this on the shelf, we can't stop selling..
ME: Yeah...
JOSS: This, we want to do a special edition....
And so on from there. So I didn't misquote him on any level. I have no idea as for the inner workings of studio accounting, as you'll notice from my original Q (which I cleaned up for sake of clarity, and being able to actually keep the interview under novella size). Some say studios get half the cash, theaters the the other half. I've seen the 55% number thrown out on Whedonesque and I'd say it has as much credence as anything else.
The basic thing I would point out however is that studios essentially don't reveal profit margins on anything. They are extremely elusive, which is why I asked the question. When Joss says they put it on paper your guess is as good as mine as to where that happened, was it a private memo? Was it a press release or interview I didn't catch? I don't know, and frankly it's not really my job to know. I take Joss at his word, and if the 38.8m in revenue (minus the theater's take) doesn't equal the reported $39m production budget... well, you got me. That's why I initially stated I figured 1 million DVDs would be the profit maker ($15 x 1m). But really the production budget could be off, even though the $38m in box office must be legit. I challenge anyone to find me real numbers from the studio on damn near anything. So could Joss be confused, or misled? Sure. But did I misquote him? Nope.
I would agree at face value the numbers don't add up, but for my purposes in an interview I just convey what the person said. And in this case the audio backs me up. In general misquoting anyone would be a very poor idea for a writer because you'd tend to not get interviews anymore. And as this is my third interview with Joss in the past two years I clearly have a vested interest in making sure I quote him accurately.
One last thing, who is to say that the only revenue source is the box office? What about other sources of revenue? I don't know all of them but merchandise, or heck even if it helped sell more Firefly DVDs. The rigors of studio accounting are as mysterious as they are byzantine. So I'm trusting Joss.
Best - Laremy
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Quote:
Originally posted by Laremy:
Hi FollowMal,
You asked me to respond to the charges that I misquoted Joss, which I think are happening at Whedonesque re: Serenity's profitability.
Hi, Laremy. I asked you in a PM to respond to a
post on the OB in which that person stated that perhaps Joss had been misquoted as they just didn't believe that Serenity might have gone into the black.
The OB ( Original Board- Fox Prospero Firefly Board) is different from Whedonesque.
Since my message to you, someone over there (OB) informed that poster that you'd recorded the interview, therefore had not misquoted Joss. So problem solved over there.
As for Whedonesque, I am unaware of anyone over there posting that Joss was misquoted, although there is discussion over there as well that Serenity could not have made a profit.
Quote:
I'd be happy to do so in any format, including here, but as I'm not a member over there I'm not sure how I could properly defend myself on that forum if you catch my drift..
You may join Whedonesque to discuss something that involves a project, article or website that you've conceived, written or made if there is discussion on the website about it. All you need do is register and fill out the form saying why you'd like to join.
I'm not sure "defend" is the correct word for what you might want to do at Whedonesque, more clarify.
I get no sense over there that they think you're in the wrong as much as I get the sense that some of the more connected to show business folks on there are incredulous that Serenity made a profit.
Quote:
Here is the exact quote from Joss, which I still have an audio recording of:
ME: Serenity, that was the last time we spoke.. and I kind of did some rough math and I figured that if it sold like a million DVDs it would be profitable but I don't have any idea of the inner workings.. is it a success to you or the studio? What's the final...
JOSS: It's a success to the studio or else they wouldn't be putting out a special edition DVD. And I know it's a success to the studio because they've actually admitted it on paper which as you know studios are always loathe to do, you know the "we lost money on Batman" rule... but um, and that was theatrical actually. Theatrical was a disappointment as everybody knows but it did go into the black, ironically, and then it did go to DVD and they took me aside and they said "We can not keep this on the shelf, we can't stop selling..
ME: Yeah...
JOSS: This, we want to do a special edition....
And so on from there. So I didn't misquote him on any level. I have no idea as for the inner workings of studio accounting, as you'll notice from my original Q (which I cleaned up for sake of clarity, and being able to actually keep the interview under novella size). Some say studios get half the cash, theaters the the other half. I've seen the 55% number thrown out on Whedonesque and I'd say it has as much credence as anything else.
The basic thing I would point out however is that studios essentially don't reveal profit margins on anything. They are extremely elusive, which is why I asked the question. When Joss says they put it on paper your guess is as good as mine as to where that happened, was it a private memo? Was it a press release or interview I didn't catch? I don't know, and frankly it's not really my job to know. I take Joss at his word, and if the 38.8m in revenue (minus the theater's take) doesn't equal the reported $39m production budget... well, you got me. That's why I initially stated I figured 1 million DVDs would be the profit maker ($15 x 1m). But really the production budget could be off, even though the $38m in box office must be legit. I challenge anyone to find me real numbers from the studio on damn near anything. So could Joss be confused, or misled? Sure. But did I misquote him? Nope.
The thing I'd like to highlight in what you said in this section is the part where you said "I take Joss at his word". I agree wholeheartedly. And I don't for a second beli
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I printed the article and UNI press release http://sev.prnewswire.com/entertainment/20070731/LATU15431072007-1.htm
l and left them at two comic book stores today.
I tried to pre-order (they are checking on it) the Serenity Collector's Edition at Borders today. I showed the article with Joss's pic and the DVD cover and said I wanted to pre-order this movie. Boom, I found a Serenity fan who didn't know. That employee turned to the next employee who came by and told them about it.
Barnes and Noble stores that have DVD departments can pre-order the SCE DVD.
Will try FYE sometime next week.
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I'm certainly buying the special edition DVD... and now, for a musical number:
All together everyone!
"Trilogy, oh trilogy
I want my Trilogy
Don't stop at one, don't stop at two
Gorramit give me three!..."
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Definitely hopeful to hear.
But I REFUSE to purchase it from Amazon regardless of who it makes money for. Not until they agree to stop selling those dogfighting and cockfighting videos, which last I heard, they still refused. I will not support cruelty for anybody!
**************************************
"Are you ready to be strong?"--Buffy Summers
"There are three things I don't do. Tan, date, and sing in public."--Angel
"In Joss We Trust."
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Quote:Well, yes, he is. Just not about this.
Originally posted by JubelLate:
Joss is not one to get our hopes up and dash them,
That's kinda why we love him.
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Thanks FollowMal, I'll look into it on Monday (traveling today).
-Laremy
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Thanks to everyone for the great links, and especially to Laremy for the interview with JW.
I will, of course, be purchasing at least two of the CEs: one for watching, one for archival purposes.
I'd like to take a little time, here, to forward my fondest desire to see Firefly return to television, as either a miniseries or full-season series. As one of the links revealed, television is the surest path to financial success. With NBC being in Universal Studios' 'family tree' -- along with SciFi Channel -- I see this as a perfect opportunity matched with an ideal delivery system. NBC's "Heroes" also shows on SciFi; "Battlestar Galactica" runs on SciFi -- for only one more season -- and both sell like hotcakes on DVD. When BSG retires this year, what will replace it? Wouldn't Firefly figure to do well in its stead?
...Of course, V-U (Vivendi-Universal) would have to prize the TV rights -- which don't expire until 2010 -- from F*x TV's deathlike grip, but...
Finally, a word about Joss, which may displease some; but, I feel it's a valid observation and I intend it as a means to improve, not to denigrate the man.
I think JW may be working his way out of a career. As fans will doubtlessly already know, he's getting washed out of projects at an alarming rate. While he acknowledges that he's hard to classify by genre -- and that he's hard to sell to studios -- he seems to remain convinced that he's bulletproof as a combination writer, director and creator of stories. The evidence would seem to suggest otherwise.
It is possible that a major reason why we have not already been greenlit for a sequel is the studio's reluctance to work with this unpredictable genius, who readily confesses to wanting "to get it all in", rather than narrowing his focus to the gist of the story. Admit it, if you dare: "Serenity" was a bit of a rockety ride, plot-wise. It wasn't so much that it was a bad ride, or that it took a lot of unnecessary detours; it's just that it could have -- should have -- been streamlined to the central premise. Then, more time could have been taken with individual character progression/interaction, Joss' forte.
...Joss the director should have demanded script revisions from Joss the writer...
That's why Joss has been so good on TV -- where he can weave as convoluted a tale as he desires: He can have as broad a focus as he can imagine and it's all to the betterment of the property. But movie storytelling is a different proposition, altogether. It's a much shorter format; trying to squeeze an entire series-season worth of subplot into a 2-hour timeframe is really neither possible nor desirable, while maintaining a discernible main plot at the same time.
And yet, I get the distinct feeling that Joss has no desire to return to TV. He's hitched his star to movies. Problem is, he's not yet a great (or even profitable/'hire-able') movie storyteller.
Joss -- if you're listening, or have friends who report on commentary on this website -- do yourself a great service and get an arbitrator between Joss The Director and Joss The Writer. I know JTD trusts JTW implicitly; but I think that trust may be somewhat misplaced. JTW is too much like a kid in a candy store; inaptly paired with JTD, who is too much like a doting grandparent, to the detriment of the kid's dentition. There needs to be somebody (Tim Minear?) wedged in between those two rascals.
Joss, we need you. Not just for SereniFly, but for all the wonderful stories you have yet to tell us. Please stop thinking you can work in a vacuum, wearing all the hats. You need someone to keep your creativity grounded and focused.
In closing, while this has been critical, it has been critical in the best possible sense: It is intended to point out not only flaws in behavior/execution, but it also attempts to suggest possible means to improve. It is given out of genuine love and respect, and I hope it is received in the same manner.
For what it's worth, I still watch Serenity and Firefl
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Quote:
Originally posted by Laremy:
Thanks FollowMal, I'll look into it on Monday (traveling today).
-Laremy
Laremy, Bix was kind enough to link this thread over to Whedonesque, so that folks over there could see your response to me.
I hope you'll still join...it's fun, but your answer has been seen.
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