Why the Left is so dangerous
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 14:10
VIEWED: 15600
PAGE 10 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Did I do it again ... miss a joke by thinking it was serious ?My only excuse is that some pepole say that stuff and mean it - it's so hard to tell the ironic from scary but sincere sometimes.
Hehe.. well, the joke continues because I was serious. But maybe less than clear. My point was that I see liberal and conservative leadership as tag-teaming on all of us. [See above post for clarification] Your post seemed in agreement with my sentiments on the topic.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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I do love my country, but she's pretty sick right now and bordering on terminal illness.
That's why I'm takin her to the Doctor.
Ron Paul, 08.
Nuff said.
-F
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Quote:Patriotism is the 'love' of the abstraction of a country, it's ideals, what it stands for.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I’m using the word patriotism exactly as the dictionary suggests it should be used. If you don’t get it, I don’t know what I can do about that. It means love for one’s country, not love for one’s country, as long as its government leans to the Left.
You're definition of Patriotism seems to suggest that you'd have to want any action taken by the government to succeed, or you are unpatriotic, even if those actions are detrimental to the country, and it's ideals.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:I don’t see how anything I’ve said suggests that.
Originally posted by citizen:
You're definition of Patriotism seems to suggest that you'd have to want any action taken by the government to succeed, or you are unpatriotic, even if those actions are detrimental to the country, and it's ideals.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:It seems, to me, that you are equating 'government' with 'country', and assuming that patriotism is therefore the desire for the government to succeed.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I don’t see how anything I’ve said suggests that.
If the actions of the Government are antithetical to the best interests of the country, it would in fact be patriotic to wish one's government to fail, because such failure could well be a success for the country.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:I’m not equating government with country though. In fact, I’ve stated that they are different things.
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:It seems, to me, that you are equating 'government' with 'country', and assuming that patriotism is therefore the desire for the government to succeed.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I don’t see how anything I’ve said suggests that.
Actually, your argument would better explain signym position. It is signym that is trying to equate government with country. Signym is trying to correlate his particular theory and opinion of how the government should work with love for your country.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Finn- I know this may seem arcane but I'm reading your posts rather closely because I really am trying to figure out what you're saying. The confusing thing is that you seem to be saying tow different things at the same time.
I’m not equating government with country though. In fact, I’ve stated that they are different things.
You said
Quote:And
And if you do, you’ll find that my interpretation of patriotism as a love for one’s country is a far more consistent with that definition then your description as attacking the government.
Quote:
I’m using the word patriotism exactly as the dictionary suggests it should be used. If you don’t get it, I don’t know what I can do about that. It means love for one’s country, not love for one’s country, as long as its government leans to the Left.
If you had said Patriotism is love for one's country, not attacking one's country that would have made logical sense. But you used the words "country" and "government" as equivalents.
So if "country" and "government" are not equivalent as you say, under what circumstances might love of country conflict with love of government? What happens in the instance you posed where you love your country but the government is an oppressive tyranny? What would patriotism look like in such an instance? If love of country and love of government come into conflict, which is the higher duty?
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AFA Republicanism and patriotism, you said
It’s probably better described as republicanism. I assumed that you meant Patriotism is probably better described as republicanism but perhaps that's not what you meant.
If in your mind they are two different things, under what circumstances might patriotism conflict with republicanism? Where they conflict, which one is the higher duty?
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
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Quote:No what I did was point out how YOU are using the government and country in an equivalent sense.
Originally posted by SignyM:
If you had said Patriotism is love for one's country, not attacking one's country that would have made logical sense. But what you did was use the words "country" and "government" in an equivalent sense. So my question remains, although I've asked it several times in several guises:
Quote:Let’s hope we never have to find out.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Under what circumstances might love of country conflict with support of government? What happens in the instance you posed where you love your country but the government is an oppressive tyranny? What would patriotism look like in such an instance?.
Quote:No what I meant was that what you’re saying sounds more like republicanism, then patriotism.
Originally posted by SignyM:
AFA Republicanism and patriotism, you said
It’s probably better described as republicanism. I assumed that you meant Patriotism is probably better described as republicanism but perhaps that's not what you meant.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Huh? Where did I do THAT?
No what I did was point out how YOU are using the government and country in an equivalent sense.
Quote:So, which in your mind is the higher duty: love of country or support of government? And AFA the potential conflict between patriotism and republicanism, do you see this as a possibility? If so, which is the higher duty?
Under what circumstances might love of country conflict with support of government? What happens in the instance you posed where you love your country but the government is an oppressive tyranny? What would patriotism look like in such an instance?.=SIGNY
Let’s hope we never have to find out.= FINN
ETA: I don't know about you but I feel like we're understanding each other better.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
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Quote:I don't know, it seems that Signym's position is that one doesn't have to support the actions of one's Government, inorder to support one's country. But, and forgive me if I have this wrong, you seem to be saying that you have to support, and want to succeed, the actions of Government, in order to support one's country. In other words, wanting America to withdraw from Iraq before the goals have been secured, would be a failure for America and thereby anyone supporting that position would not be 'patriotic'.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I’m not equating government with country though. In fact, I’ve stated that they are different things.
Actually, your argument would better explain signym position. It is signym that is trying to equate government with country. Signym is trying to correlate his particular theory and opinion of how the government should work with love for your country.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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