Wow!!! the founding fathers were right........

POSTED BY: kaneman
UPDATED: Monday, July 16, 2007 04:08
VIEWED: 3756
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FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, June 7, 2007 9:25 PM

No Kane, it is not - in fact it is *expressly* unconstitutional to even HAVE a standing army loyal to the FedGov alone.

And it's danger was not one bit understated, as I will show you.

-F

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, June 7, 2007 9:25 PM

Patrick Henry
June 14, 1788

Mr. Chairman, in my judgment the friends of the opposition have to act cautiously. We must make a firm stand before we decide. I was heard to say, a few days ago, that the sword and purse were the two great instruments of government; and I professed great repugnance at parting with the purse, without any control, to the proposed system of government. And now, when we proceed in this formidable compact, and come to the national defence, the sword, I am persuaded we ought to be still more cautious and circumspect; for I feel still more reluctance to surrender this most valuable of rights.

The honorable member who has risen to explain several parts of the system was pleased to say, that the best way of avoiding the danger of a standing army, was, to have the militia in such a way as to render it unnecessary; and that, as the new government would have power over the militia, we should have no standing army — it being unnecessary. This argument destroys itself. It demands a power, and denies the probability of its exercise. There are suspicions of power on one hand, and absolute and unlimited confidence on the other. I hope to be one of those who have a large share of suspicion. I leave it to this house, if there be not too small a portion on the other side, by giving up too much to that government. You can easily see which is the worst of two extremes. Too much suspicion may be corrected. If you give too little power to-day, you may give more to-morrow. But the reverse of the proposition will not hold. If you give too much power to-day, you cannot retake it to-morrow: for to-morrow will never come for that purpose. If you have the fate of other nations, you will never see it. It is easier to supply deficiencies of power than to take back excess of power. This no man can deny.

But, says the honorable member, Congress will keep the militia armed; or, in other words, they will do their duty. Pardon me if I am too jealous and suspicious to confide in this remote possibility. My honorable friend went on a supposition that the American rulers, like all others, will depart from their duty without bars and checks. No government can be safe without checks. Then he told us they had no temptation to violate their duty, and that it would be their interest to perform it. Does he think you are to trust men who cannot have separate interests from the people? It is a novelty in the political world (as great a novelty as the system itself) to find rulers without private interests, and views of personal emoluments, and ambition. His supposition, that they will not depart from their duty, as having no interest to do so, is no satisfactory answer to my mind. This is no check. The government may be most intolerable and destructive, if this be our only security.

My honorable friend attacked the honorable gentleman with universal principles — that, in all nations and ages, rulers have been actuated by motives of individual interest and private emoluments, and that in America it would be so also. I hope, before we part with this great bulwark, this noble palladium of safety, we shall have such checks interposed as will render us secure. The militia, sir, is our ultimate safety. We can have no security without it. But then, he says that the power of arming and organizing the militia is concurrent, and to be equally exercised by the general and state governments. I am sure, and I trust in the candor of that gentleman, that he will recede from that opinion, When his recollection will be called to the particular clause which relates to it.

As my worthy friend said, there is a positive partition of power between the two governments. To Congress is given the power of "arming, organizing, and disciplining the militia, and governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States." To the state legislatures is given the power of appointing the officers, and training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress." I observed before, that, if the power be concurrent as t

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, June 7, 2007 9:33 PM

Patrick Henry
June 5th, 1788

This, sir, is the language of democracy--that a majority of the community have a right to alter government when found to be oppressive. But how different is the genius of your new Constitution from this! How different from the sentiments of freemen that a contemptible minority can prevent the good of the majority! If, then, gentlemen standing on this ground are come to that point, that they are willing to bind themselves and their posterity to be oppressed, I am amazed and inexpressibly astonished. If this be the opinion of the majority, I must submit; but to me, sir, it appears perilous and destructive. I can not help thinking so. Perhaps it may be the result of my age. These may be feelings natural to a man of my years, when the American spirit has left him, and his mental powers, like the members of the body, are decayed. If, sir, amendments are left to the twentieth, or tenth part of the people of America, your liberty is gone for ever.

We have heard that there is a great deal of bribery practised in the House of Commons of England, and that many of the members raise themselves to preferments by selling the rights of the whole of the people. But, sir, the tenth part of that body can not continue oppressions on the rest of the people. English liberty is, in this case, on a firmer foundation than American liberty. It will be easily contrived to procure the opposition of the one-tenth of the people to any alteration, however judicious. The honorable gentleman who presides told us that, to prevent abuses in our government, we will assemble in convention, recall our delegated powers, and punish our servants for abusing the trust reposed in them. Oh, sir! we should have fine times, indeed, if, to punish tyrants, it were only sufficient to assemble the people! Your arms, wherewith you could defend yourselves, are gone; and you have no longer an aristocratical, no longer a democratical spirit. Did you ever read of any revolution in a nation, brought about by the punishment of those in power, inflicted by those who had no power at all? You read of a riot act in a country which is called one of the freest in the world, where a few neighbors can not assemble without the risk of being shot by a hired soldiery, the engines of despotism. We may see such an act in America.

A standing army we shall have, also, to execute the execrable commands of tyranny; and how are you to punish them? Will you order them to be punished? Who shall obey these orders? Will your mace-bearer be a match for a disciplined regiment? In what situation are we to be? The clause before you gives a power of direct taxation, unbounded and unlimited--an exclusive power of legislation, in all cases whatsoever, for ten miles square, and over all places purchased for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, etc. What resistance could be made? The attempt would be madness. You will find all the strength of this country in the hands of your enemies; their garrisons will naturally be the strongest places in the country. Your militia is given up to Congress, also, in another part of this plan; they will therefore act as they think proper; all power will be in their own possession. You can not force them to receive their punishment: of what service would militia be to you, when, most probably, you will not have a single musket in the State? For, as arms are to be provided by Congress, they may or may not furnish them.

The honorable gentleman then went on to the figure we make with foreign nations; the contemptible one we make in France and Holland, which, according to the substance of the notes, he attributes to the present feeble government. An opinion has gone forth, we find, that we are contemptible people; the time has been when we were thought otherwise. Under the same despised government we commanded the respect of all Europe; wherefore are we now reckoned otherwise? The American spirit has fled from hence: it has gone to regions where it has never been expected; it has gone to the people of France

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, June 7, 2007 10:59 PM

Constitutional Info

See, here's where folks get it wrong - the US Constitution is NOT a list of rights we have with every single other thing reserved to the FedGov, in fact the opposite is true, it is a list of the express powers delegated to the FedGov, and anything not explicitly and expressly given unto them belongs to US, the States and People respectively.

What that means, you ask ?

Signing Statements - Unconstitutional

Executive Orders - Unconstitutional

Resolutions - Unconstitutional

Making new govt offices (FEMA, CIA, NSA) - Unconstitutional

Federal Law Enforcement (FBI, SS, DHS) - Unconstitutional

In Fact, the Gov only really has a few duties, and everything beyond that is Unconstitutional usurpation, period.

Direct Taxation was intended to be expressly forbidden, however this was in theory altered by the 16th Amendment, however it's ratification process is under suspicion of quite a bit of Fraud at the hands of Philip Knox, and with substantive evidence, although there's no way in hell the FedGov would ever admit that, it'd be chewing off their own arms.

The 16th also come out of the financial flakery of FDR with the bank holidary and moving from a real currency backed by gold to a fiat currency backed by faith and promises, so there's a whole metric ton of crapola that goes along with it to dig through in order to make sense of that whole period, none of it Constitutional by any degree.

Of course, as Mr. Henry so effectively pointed out, now that us people have been disarmed and exist under threat of force from fifty-plus "Alphabet Agencies" AND a Standing Army, AND Federal Law enforcement, where is your State now ? think they would issue you arms to recitify the situation ? yeah, right.

And so we are at the impasse that's been coming since 1788, any useful suggestions, then ?
(Other than electing Ron Paul, cause it ain't gonna happen folks, even if we DID vote him in, they'd kill him, fudge the results, or just plain refuse to seat him or acknowledge him)

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

KANEMAN

Friday, June 8, 2007 1:44 AM

Fred,
Thank you for elaborating... I have a different outlook on this....

Love always kaneman

KANEMAN

Friday, June 15, 2007 12:50 AM

Bump...watch that video.......Then register and vote Ron Paul

KANEMAN

Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:35 PM

cock bump

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, July 13, 2007 4:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
....
Signing Statements - Unconstitutional
....

A little piece by Ron Paul on how Signing Statements Erode Constitutional Balance:

http://www.antiwar.com/paul/index.php?articleid=11272

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

GEOSPACEMONKEY

Friday, July 13, 2007 3:36 PM

Awesome babyee - I'm going to share this. Ron Paul is the closest thing I know to a Browncoat leader.
Thanks, Geo

CHRISISALL

Friday, July 13, 2007 3:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

And so we are at the impasse that's been coming since 1788

Frem, if I never said it before, I say it now: You are da MAN!!!
You need to be a teacher, dude. Set these kids in school learning about the cherry tree straight.

98% of the history I now know was learned AFTER High School and college!!!!!

Equilibrium here we come Chrisisall

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