Dead Air/Other Fic Comms/Reviews
POSTED BY: biggrstaffbunch
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 3, 2007 02:39
VIEWED: 19536
PAGE 3 of 5
Quote:
OK, I don't know shit about fic and fandom; this firefly thing is all I've ever done. But I ask those of you who know: is it normal in other fandoms for the fic to be so focused on pairings? Is it that just the nature of thing that it be mostly based on fantasies?
Thing is, it just seems wrong here. Firefly is not a romance thing. There is that, and it's great, but it's not the point of the show. And yet, it does sometimes seem like 99% of the fic.
I'm from two fandoms, Tarzan The Series (Don't laugh, I was very young and naive) and more recently Prison Break. Both are heavily pairing focused, TTS is basically 100% pairing focused, and PB I'd say is 99% regardless of the fact that the regular cast is domniated by males (I do believe 1 female regluar in s2). I pulled out of PB this spring and put myself on hiatus from writing that fandom because I felt I had gone off into the deep end of the love/fluff/kids Michael and Sara movement. (Didn't want that, I wanted more substance in my writing) So yes, I do believe it's unfortunately normal for most fandoms to be focused on the romance.
*puts on camouflage and resumes lurking on this thread*
Ash
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I remember the S/K glut. It was everywhere - sexsexsex! And now it's all about River/whoever sex/love/sex/marriage/sex/babies/sex...
OK, I don't know shit about fic and fandom; this firefly thing is all I've ever done. But I ask those of you who know: is it normal in other fandoms for the fic to be so focused on pairings? Is it that just the nature of thing that it be mostly based on fantasies?
Thing is, it just seems wrong here. Firefly is not a romance thing. There is that, and it's great, but it's not the point of the show. And yet, it does sometimes seem like 99% of the fic.
I'm coming from the X-Files Community. The X-Files was never about a romance between Mulder and Scully, but I would say about 80% of the fic out there is based on some romantic entanglement between our favorite FBI agents or the other characters. Still, the sheer massive numbers of fic that was produced for that show ensured that even that 20% was a lot!
I guess I understand why all the romance. I mean, I did squeal like a 5 year old and run around the house when they had their first kiss. I don't think I could even form a coherent sentence. I would probably cry if Mal and Inara ever got together. Or hyperventalate.
Anyhoo, I will say (in the defense of romance writers) that the majority of the fic I choose to read always has cannon pairing, BUT usually the romance is a back story. That's why I love your stuff, Mal4Prez: great, exciting plot with some great romance thrown in.
Of course I do enjoy a bit of fluff, too. But the stuff I read over and over is usually exceptional in some way.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
OK - I'll take a step back from my stance as resident evil fic opinion person to say this: it makes absolute sense that fanfiction is the place to do the things that the writer of a show could never do. Joss can't have (for example) Mal and Inara share that lovely falling-in-love moment, because as soon as he does, the show has lost a major source of tension. Even if Joss is really good about how he does it, he can only make it happen once, whereas we can dream up all sorts of situations. And that is fun!
So, yeah, it makes sense that fanfic can create these lovely romantic bits, in a temporary way that doesn't ruin the whole long term arc of the show. And I've been highly entertained by this kind of fic from time to time, I really have! Actually, I've gone there myself, in little bits.
I think the real problem here is that we have no long term arc, so we're stuck in those little moments, over and over...
Hey - has anyone lynched Fox lately? 
BTW: Tarzan the series? wow, I had no idea. When did that air? And there's a thriving fic community?
I'm so not hip on the fic scene LOL!
EDIT: EmpireX - just caught your post. The Mulder/Scully thing I can totally see. That show really played up the sexual tension between those two (at least, I think so!) without ever delivering on it, and all the alien/weird storylines are used up. I wouldn't know what else to write about with that show! I'll just stay here where it's nice and cozy...
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Wow, a lot to reply to!
FEEDBACK:
I find that the requisite "Feedback is appreciated" comment is the most I put in. Is that a turn-off? I know its not quite the ff.net tradition of OMG PLZ MORE LOLS REVIEW MY FICS PLZ and its not quite the fff.net tradition of posting and pretty much being guarunteed a few lines of feedback. A nice balance...
I also tend to crosspost on LJ like mad, though, which probably gets annoying, too. But I do tend to write for feedback on LJ, which is my own trauma, I guess, haha. I just like to know how I'm doing, you know? It was through one of my first Firefly fics where I got in a spirited discussion about my portrayal of Kaylee.
QUALITY:
2X2, I completely agree. I find LJ to have a lot better quality overall than fff.net, mostly because the system of recs. I get recced something and check it out. The back-patting syndrome is HUGE, and its not necessarily bad, because Browncoats are so friendly and all, but there is a certain amount of, "Is this fic good, or is it just being recced because someone's friends with someone else?"
VOLUME:
I agree with Steamer and others that its the culture of Firefly fandom on lj. Its still a fledgling fandom on lj, in a LOT of ways, more reliant on combining Whedonverse than sustaining discussion/fic on its own. And theres a tendency to take earlier fanfic writers and turn them in BNFs, sort of ignoring up and comers, I think, in favor of old favorites. I know, I sound petulant, but sometimes when I read these fics from so called BNF's, I wonder if character development is a word in their vocabulary, you know? Haha.
PAIRINGS/NON PAIRINGS:
I think with every fandom you find this. Fanfic is seen so universally as this way to vicariously live out your fantasies with fictional characters...when James Gunn made that comment about 38 yr old housewives in regards to Nathan, I blushed, because I may not be 38 OR masturbating to NF, but I do write a character with his face in some PRETTY compromising positions.
That being said, I can't critique. Most of my fic is pairing based, with a healthy dose of character sketch. I explore interpersonal dynamics best through pairings, I feel, though I am starting to LOVE the gen in FF 'verse (better than gen anywhere else) This is because, in my opinion, there wasnt a lot of time for Joss to really establish couples other than Zoe/Wash and Simon/Kaylee. There's the wealth of Mal/Inara, of course, but you tend to get those three pairings the most. With nine central characters and one of 'em a preacher, with no opportunity for a lot of seasons of peripheral characters, I bet it's hard for some fic writers to really figure out canon ways to develop a story past pairings.
Mal4prez, of course, manages it VERY well. :)
Non canon smut pisses me off, but so does canon smut. The S/K glut probably pissed people off too, haha. It doesnt leave room for character development, if both characters are regalated to sex monkies. I did myself write a S/K smut one-shot, but again--ONE. I hope I'm not guilty of the smut offense, haha.
Simon/Mal...Mal/Jayne, etc. It's all got to do with fandoms obsession with implausible slash. *cough* Harry/Draco *cough* It happens in EVERY fandom. Two hot guys together--what's better. 
But they just sacrifice those character moments that 2x2 was talking about, those surprising moments that make fic worth it, to write two penises together. Blah.
EmpireX: You are WAY too nice. I'm always surprised and grateful by the feedback I DO get here, I suppose I shouldnt whine about no LJ feedback, haha.
Anyways, everyone makes SUCH good points!
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
BTW: Tarzan the series? wow, I had no idea. When did that air? And there's a thriving fic community?
It aired in 2003 and was cancelled after 8 epis by the WB. (which is basically FOX so there's a common evil lol). Good plot that updated the story and had it in NYC with Jane as a cop, good actors (Lucy, Lawless and Mitch Pileggi were in it), lots of potential, writing could have been better but it was a good show. There were some heavy duty campagnes back in the day to save it. Obviously it didn't work, hell we didn't even manage to get the eps on DVD. But because they left off at 8 eps there used to be a thriving fic community. There's still a small community, I hang around on the forum 'cause it's my roots. First fandom, first save a show campagne, first online friends, first fanfics, wax nostalgic and all that jazz lol.
I digress though, this is a Firefly board
Quote:
I find that the requisite "Feedback is appreciated" comment is the most I put in. Is that a turn-off? I know its not quite the ff.net tradition of OMG PLZ MORE LOLS REVIEW MY FICS PLZ and its not quite the fff.net tradition of posting and pretty much being guarunteed a few lines of feedback. A nice balance...
I do the same thing too, usually I put something to the effect of "Comments are shiny, I even take constructive critism". No begging, just a little reminder that comments are nice that I even take critism.
I don't do the smut either, canon or non. Can't read it, can't write it, just isn't my thing. If it's in a fic I'm reading, I usually just skip it and move on to the next part, but if it's too smut heavy I'll stop reading. I've always felt that never needs to be the focus of a story, even with romances. If we're talking about pairings... I can't get into any pairing that has River in it... it's just way to weird. (Someone's written a Book pairing? That's. So. Wrong)
As for slash, can't stomach that at all.
But I must say, since I joined FFF, your guy's smut & slash ratio is pretty low compared to what I'm used to. Like I said, I come from the Prison Break fandom that features one main female and about 10 main men as a cast. Most of the men are prison escapees, two of them are brothers, one con is a pedophile who goes both ways, and then you have the female doctor (Sara who cares for the man who broke his brother out(Michael) and she's a recovering morphine addict. Ten men, one addict female, you would not believe the amount of slash, incest and PWP that gets posted. Don't get me wrong, there's some good gen, romance, angst and fluff (I write all 4)... but yeah.... this stuff on here isn't that bad lol.
Speaking of PB... I know someone was talking about putting up a shiny site for FF fics, has anyone heard of an e-fiction site? Nifty free program to set up a site for archiving fan-fiction. Here if anyone wants to check it out for ideas...
http://www.prisonbreakfic.net/
Here's the place to get the e-fiction software
http://www.efiction.org/
*I'll shut up about other fandoms now lol*
Ash
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I'm jumping in here late, but it's a neat discussion. :D
I've always been an avid LJ poster. I'd even say that I've had much more responses and feedback on LJ than on the BSR. It's probably one of the reasons I just haven't gotten around to cross-posting most of my work here. Not that I don't appreciate the feedback I get on the BSR, but it's so much more dynamic and interactive on LJ. I love being able to reply to people individually and even have real discussions on character arcs/development - that sort of thing.
I've gotten really great feedback on LJ from the scant Firefly pieces I've posted lately, but I easily get twice as many comments when I post Doctor Who fic. (NOT that the number of feedbackers matters to me so much - I'm much more likely to write for whoever is yammering away loudest in my head. And sometimes I just have NO control over that. :D)
My point is, I'd agree that the 'Firefly' fandom on LJ has been a little bit quiet recently. I know that I feel in kind of a holding pattern with Firefly. I still LOVE it, but there hasn't been new canon in so long, I'm being tempted by new and shiny things. I wouldn't be surprised if that sentiment is shared by others, which probably makes breaking into the LJ community difficult.
As for pairings/ships - yeah, I'd say that's pretty much the standard fanfic format, no matter the fandom. It's primarily what I'm interested in, even if it might have slightly negative connotations. But I think for most of us, we want that gratification from our chosen romantic pairing that we'll probably just never get onscreen. I mean, for some people it's probably "pretty people + sex = wheeeeeeee" but I think most fanfic writers/readers just want the chance to explore it on that deeper level. I mean, we'll probably never get a resolution to Mal/Inara, so we might as well write 10,000 scenarios ourselves, right?
And also - I'd like to reiterate what 2x2 said about begging for feedback. I wouldn't ever accuse anyone in particular, but it is SUCH a turn-off for me when someone leaves a comment in their A/N along the lines of: "Please leave feedback!!111!!!" When you put yourself out there as fanfic writer/icon maker/artist/whatever, no one is obligated to give you anything in return. It's just a nice bonus. :D
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
I find that the requisite "Feedback is appreciated" comment is the most I put in. Is that a turn-off?
Not for me. It's the 'begging' for feedback that is increasingly annoying. To the point I've considered not even bothering anymore.
I think 2x2 mentioned something about fluff writing and writing something with more substance and I can only give my opinion on that. It's SO much easier to write fluff with a little angst than to follow through on a heavily plot driven story (maybe with a little romance). It takes FAR longer to make sure you get every little thing right. Well, I know it does for me.
Quote:
It was through one of my first Firefly fics where I got in a spirited discussion about my portrayal of Kaylee.
I do like LJ for the ability to comment directly to someone who left you feedback. I just can't be bothered to put all my fic up there! :)
Quote:
It's all got to do with fandoms obsession with implausible slash.
I'll go a step further and add 'implausible pairings' because its not just slash. Again, just part of the writers own fantasies to put two people together and fail to characterize them well or believably.
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hey there –
This is a great thread. You can find me most evenings in the blue sun room, sipping on a cocktail and reading happily along. Mal4prez told me about this thread and I read most of it late last night and promptly fell asleep before I got it together to post my response. Which tends to be the reason I don’t leave feedback. That and my browser keeps logging me off FFN. Anyway in response to several of the lines of thought here.
1. Being turned off by the begging for feedback
I feel completely different than most of you. I could care less if someone puts in a line or two saying they would appreciate feedback. As a matter of fact it so ubiquities I thought it was standard practice. I can see how lines and lines of begging might be annoying if the writing was really awful, however I often laugh at the different creative ways folks think of to let their readers know that the author wants to know who is reading and what they think. And I am guilty of asking myself. Mostly because it is a great way to get to know everyone out there. I’m not one for boards very often.
2. Sex/Smut/Unusual Pairings
I agree however that there is way to much sex smut out there. It’s just boring. I mean how many different ways can you write an orgasm? Been there done that. Next story please.
I really enjoy the longer plot driven stories. This verse has so much to offer, so many complex issues to explore. It really can really challenge both author and reader. I for one think I am really growing as an author, by my work I have posted here.
I find slash and most of the River pairings just wrong. Likewise Book pairings. Not because there is anything inherently wrong with mixed age or same sex relationships. It is just not the kind of thing these characters would do.
I think the reason that there is so much romance writing out there it that lots of folks in the country like romance novels. Go into any supermarket and you will find an entire rack of romance books, with maybe a mystery or two thrown in for diversity. It also seems to me that many of the authors posting are younger, teens and twenties. When I was that age, sex was on my mind a lot, I’m sure I’m not the only one. Authors tend to write what they are thinking about or they are familiar with. In my first couple stories I added kids to the mix, because lets face it, I’m a soccer mom. I’m surrounded by kids all the time. It’s what I know. This last story I wrote I needed a female character to be faced with and have help overcoming great adversity, because that is what was going on in my life.
So here’s a call for folks to get out there and write some really good plot driven stories examining some of the complex issues Mal4Prez listed earlier in this thread.
Ok time to add my pet peeve.
I hate it when I am working my way through a really good story then it just abruptly ends. The author just stopped writing/posting. And we as readers have no idea what was going to happen. Kind of like (dare I say it) Fox pulling the plug on us after just 14 episodes?
I tend to wait until a chapter is posted with the words conclusion or epilogue in the summery because I have just been burned to many times. There is also the factor that I have to much going on to remember what each of the BDH’s are doing in individual stories when there are weeks/months in between chapters. I like reading a whole story start to finish in a couple of sittings. It makes complex stories more exciting and fun to read.
Ok – I’m gong to stop babbling now so you can all tell me how much you disagree with what I’ve said:)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
I think 2x2 mentioned something about fluff writing and writing something with more substance and I can only give my opinion on that. It's SO much easier to write fluff with a little angst than to follow through on a heavily plot driven story (maybe with a little romance). It takes FAR longer to make sure you get every little thing right. Well, I know it does for me.
That might have been me. I said something to the effect of I had stopped writing on another fandom because I was writing fluff fics but wanted substance. I agree with you though, fluff is a whoooole lot easier to write than heavy plot stories. Heavy plot stories for me invovle lots of notes and planning (and if I want OCs that takes even longer because I fear having a Mary Sue), fluff I can come up with a cute idea and just type. I didn't diss fluff, because I am very guilty of writing large amounts of it in other fandoms, but I just was saying I wanted to pull away from that and try something new. Fluff is good, it's always sweet to read something with a nice happy ending. But I also like something that's a bit more epic. There's alot more in them, it's just trying to pull off one that's hard. I love Mal4Prez's list that pretty much captures everything that alot of Serenity stories tend to lack. As heavily written as the 'verse is, there's still alot of unventured soil because I hate to say this, but alot of the fics out there are very formulaic. Then again I'm probably not the one to talk on about epic series. Fledging Firefly writer has yet to fully grasp all of the complexities I'm sure.
Speaking of fluff. I in fact I typed out a massively fluffy Simon/Kaylee fic last night. Lol, six chapters, doubt it will be posted soon though. I stupidly blurted on the Unpopular Opinions board that I agreed that having a baby on Serenity would never happen. What did I do? I did a fluff fic where Simon wakes up the entire ship in the process of bottle feeding his newborn son.
So yes, throw me into the formulaic, fluff bandwagon. I apparently can't escape it even in switching fandoms lol.Ash
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by TuJiaoZuo:Quote:
, but I just was saying I wanted to pull away from that and try something new.
I've been doing that as well. It's been a long while since I've written just a happy, fluffy fic. Angst is so much more fun.Quote:
Speaking of fluff. I in fact I typed out a massively fluffy Simon/Kaylee fic last night. Lol, six chapters, doubt it will be posted soon though.
Oh? Why? It's always good to have more S/K stories! Of course, I'm sure lots of people reading this thread are groaning over that comment! LOL!Quote:
I stupidly blurted on the Unpopular Opinions board that I agreed that having a baby on Serenity would never happen.
LOL! Well, I did the exact same thing when I first started writing Firefly fic! I still don't think having a baby on Serenity is very practical, but it is fun to try and write a convincing story around it.
Quote:
What did I do? I did a fluff fic where Simon wakes up the entire ship in the process of bottle feeding his newborn son.
Ash
Aww, ok, I really do want to read that! So post it soon, ok?
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME