Why was this show ever cancelled? just finished watching the set
POSTED BY: MathewJ
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 23:12
VIEWED: 13859
PAGE 5 of 5
"In this quadrant, we play nice. Got enemies enough as it is." --Mal, "War Stories"
Jen dao mei.
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I watched every episode but one when they originally aired, and only missed that one due to a screw-up with my VCR, so I can't be the one bamadave is talking about. I have never known a Nielson family in my life, and I'm 53, which is not even the demographic that I'm sure FOX was aiming at for "Firefly" (or any other show for that matter).
My memories of favored canceled shows goes way back, and they aren't all SF shows either. I doubt anyone around here remembers a wonderful comedy that premiered on NBC in 1970 called "My World, and Welcome To It." It happened to be on opposite "Mary Tyler Moore," so scheduling decisions by the networks do make a difference. And if you do not have a Nielson box, or know anyone who does, you will never have an effective voice in networks' programming decisions. Period.
wo men ren ran zai fei xing.
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I remember "My World!" Very fondly.
Jen dao mei.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoriah:
Bamadave, trying to make people feel guilty collectively and accusing them of making excuses is not a great way to get them on board with your ideas.
However, (I could be wrong) I think I get the gist where you are coming from. So often people don't get behind a show until it's too late. The buzz starts happening after the show's already on the bubble or even stopped airing altogether. I think that fans of quality shows are starting to realise that fan hype and buzz are very important, even prior to a show premiering, and that with the internet as a ready resource it's important to not only keep informed but also to inform others of shows worthy of our attention and support.
There was no way I could have helped Firefly by watching it when it aired as I live in New Zealand and do not get Fox here, but as soon as it came out on DVD I ordered myself a copy.
You are talking about being more proactive rather than reactive I think.
thanks for getting what i am saying. it may have come across as too harsh, i didn't think so. there has been post after post on this issue and it seems that the focus gets lost in the fox bashing. it's easy to band together as a group and keep kicking fox. but it's not as easy to admit that the fans played a part.
i don't really want to be in the defending fox camp, but the fox bashing camp isn't really doing much for anyone.
it seems that a lot of people are taking personal offense at this. i should clarify that i am not talking about any individual fan or what you did or didn't do to help firefly. i am talking about all firefly fans, and what 'we' didn't do, myself included. all with the idea that next time 'we' get it right. whether that be for the relaunched firefly series, or for the next best thing.
but if you still don't get that, feel free to attack me. blame me for the failure of wonderfalls. post how you couldn't have done any more. toss in a shot at fox. whatever you need. at least people are discussing it now.
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Quote:
Originally posted by bamadave:
to answer your original question as to why this show was cancelled, because nobody f'ing watched. all the other reasons are just excuses meant to obscure the fact that the fans of the show let it down.
aired out of order - so what. watch the episodes in their intended order and the story is still told out of order. they flash back or reveal details later in the series that you don't get in the pilot. also, each episode stands well enough on its own that it doesn't require seeing the previous one.
pre-empted for baseball - who cares? sci-fi fans can wait 16 years between star wars films and still manage to figure out when to go to the theater in record numbers, but can't seem to figure out that firefly will be on again in two weeks?
time slot of death - well either it is a great show or it isn't. if people can't be bothered to make time to watch it on a friday night, they must not really think it is a great show.
didn't know it was on - one of my favorites. is the network supposed to come to your house and change the channel for you? every newspaper and countless websites all have tv grids. people can't take one minute out of their day to see what is on?
fox just wants to make more reality crap - close, but missing the point. fox just wants to make money. they had to hire extra people to rake up all the cash that american idol show is bringing in. there is not an evil plot at the network to only make bad tv. they are there to make a profit, and you can bet that if firefly was getting top 20 numbers that they would be more than happy to keep flying.
Hey BamaDave. Welcome to the board. Not sure this is a great way to start things out, but.... (shrugs).
I can see your point that "fans" let the show down, but only to an extent. The fans are not alone in treatment of the show, and we definitely have no influence on how a network like Fox handles it once they have purchased the rights to it.
I don't think our points are "excuses" so much as they are facts:
fact: Fox execs made Joss set aside the pilot episode, "Serenity", stating it was too long and made him write the "Train Job" script over the course of a weekend to fit their 1 hour time slot.
result: Confusion. Sure it was a good episode, but it still left people scratching their heads. Who were these characters, and why were they on Serenity in the first place? What was their motivation? What were their connections to one another? Some people lost interest because there was no background on the characters. Kind of like jumping into a book halfway through & trying to appreciate it.
fact: Fox aired episodes out of order.
result: Airing episodes out of order caused the storyline to seem fractured and chaotic. Episodes referred back to what should have been previous episodes, but weren't due to being shown in something other than their intended order.
fact: Fox pre-empted the show twice for baseball.
result: People gave up trying to catch the show, or thought it was off the air. Hard to keep someone's interest if you pre-empt the show w/ all the other problems you have given the show through mishandling.
fact: Nielson families are the only ones who count toward ratings.
result: Ratings are based on some convoluted formula that most still feel does not accurately sample the number of viewers that tune into a show.
Now I can see where perhaps the show did not have the fanbase then that it does now, but the past is the past. Some fans can take some of the blame, but part of the blame lays w/ Fox in their mishandling of the show. Anyone who says Fox is not partly responsible is simply delusional.
Quote:
etc etc etc. this might seem harsh but i think it is worth pointing out. firefly was cancelled because the fans let it down. they didn't watch, and that is what you get. sadly, since people would rather say f fox and the people at fox are morons and any other thing besides 'it's our fault',NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Hi SBWatcher, and Welcome!! I'm in Goshen, 30 miles east of you.
Pleasure to meet you DarkJester! Thanks for the welcome.
"What's sanguine mean again?"
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Bamadave,
Just FYI, I told everyone I knew and thought might possibly be interested in FF to watch it while it was on, and I saw every single ep except for Objects In Space on TV (I dl'ed OIS later.)
Early: You ever been raped, Kaylee?
Kaylee: You know, it's funny you should mention that... ever heard of the Fox network?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cartagia:
I'm not certain but I think it was Robert Heinlein who first came to the conclusion that frontier civilization would resemble what we think of as 'western' civilization. When you are all alone out on the fringe, with your life and those of your family depending upon the equipment you have, you want to know that it will almost never break and that if you are unlucky enough for it to happen, then you or one of your neighbors can fix it themselves, not have to ship it back to some tech shop to get repaired in a month or so, if you are lucky.
Yes, for Heinlein's take on life on the frontier read Farmer in the Sky, Tunnel in the Sky and Time Enough For Love. And Tunnel actually has a scene of a wagon train of settlers about to travel thru a wormhole to a colony planet.
Jaymes
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It's been interesting reading through this thread.
Why was the show cancelled?
My opinion is that it was due to wrong pre-suppositions from BOTH the part of the Fox executives and from the fans.
The TV executives took the line :-
"SF show? That will appeal to a demographic of 13-30 year old males who are interested in science and alien life-forms (Dare I say geeks/nerds/anoraks/boffs, whichever is most appropriate to your culture and age?) So let's show it at a time when all the people who are NOT in this demographic are doing other things - 8pm on a Friday, so all the lonely young men can watch it in peace."
The prospective fans, however, did NOT fall into this demographic. As can easily be seen from scanning this board, fans come from many backgrounds.
I see a few trends:-
a) Fans of other work from Joss W, especially BtVS and Angel (which themselves have a wide fan-base in demographic terms)
b) Fans of other SF shows/movies (ST, B5, Star Wars etc) who are interested in seeing other interpretations of the future.
c) Fans of any or all of the actors from other sources - they are an appealing bunch of characters who have gathered their own adherants.
d) Fans of classic written SF who see elements of old favorites re-interpteted in Firefly.
e) Fans who see their own particular political bias reflected in the show (and I always find it interesting that people from ALL political shades can see it as supporting their point of view!)
f) Fans who didn't expect to like the show because they don't fit into any of the other categories - they just LIKE it.
I'm sure there are more categories - but my point is that the fans can't be defined by a simple description of age, sex, educational level, income or anything else. They don't fit into any of the dempgraphics.
From the point of view of the fans, the false assumption was that because THEY saw the show and thought it was good, everyone else ought to do so too - including the decision makers at Fox.
However, those executives saw only that this show was not popular with the demographic they had aimed it at - and so assumed it was unpopular. (Who could imagine that a middle-aged mother could get her ration of escapism for the week from SF rather than Soap? Not Fox, evidently!! (That's me, btw!!))
And so it was cancelled. And THEN the protests started from all the people who loved the show, but at whom it was not aimed.
So - the half series was sold wherever it could bring in a bit more money.
I'm in the UK, so had the priveledge of watching the whole series in the right order (Serenity first), and including the episodes un-aired in the USA, on the UK SciFi channel. Each new episode was shown 3 or 4 times each week, no pre-emptions, plenty of advertising on that channel.
I watched or recorded the first showing each time, then often re-watched a later showing. The episodes have been repeated at least once (maybe twice) since their original showing.
In a few words, they treated the show right.
HOWEVER, and this is a big however (in capitals, even!) I realise that there is little chance that SciFi UK, or even the larger body that runs SciFi channels in different countries, would have had the funding to have produced the show in the first place. Even if they are the ones who understand how to make most money out of it.
So - we come down to a choice - expensive shows that will appeal to a large number of people who happen to fall into the expected demographic, or cheaper shows that will appeal to less people, who may not fit into the simple demographic descriptions.
All this ramble is in answer to Bamadave's question about how we can stop the same thing happening to other shows.
My answer would be
a) To try to make decision-makers shake off outdated pre-suppositions about who enjoys what.
b) Decide what WE really want. Early Star Trek (OS) shows were cheap to make - polystyrene block scenery, limited cast and sets - and yet told stories that are still enjoyable.
If we are a minority, and can't provide between ourselves the resource
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