Immigration nation
POSTED BY: kaneman
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 12, 2026 04:42
VIEWED: 9962
PAGE 6 of 11
And somehow you missed ALL the undeserved snipes Fletch2 was making all along - like these:
Would be nice if you would stay on topic.
I think my understanding of economics is actually ahead of yours
I find opening my mouth to speak is better than mumbling through clenched teeth, which I suspect you do a lot.
So your "observation" proves nothing, unless you stopped and asked her which of course you didn't because that would mean you'd have to treat her as a person and not a political football.
Now how did that happen?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You have a very basic contradiction within your own reasoning. On the one hand, you say that we need immigrant labor because otherwise cheap foreign labor will out-compete us. On the other hand, you say that no Americans will lose any jobs because of cheap immigrant labor. You can't have it both ways. Either cheap labor is a threat or it is not.
Ok, this is the only one I’m going to answer. The others are either strawman arguments or you really are unable to understand a simple point. This is done in my afternoon break ---so it won’t be pretty.
Basic definition, --there is a difference between wealth and profit. Wealth is in effect the gross difference between the value of raw materials and the value of finished goods. Profit is the difference between manufacturing costs and sale price.
That means that where a product is made has consequences.
Imagine I make widgets in the US. A widget is a small, manufactured item of high value and relatively small mass. Each widget retails for $10 of which $2 are plant and materials, $4 labour and $4 profit. The job is labour intensive so I employ 5000 Americans to make widgets for me in a plant in Bugspit, Idaho.
For each widget made my workers create $8 worth of wealth transforming raw materials into manufactured products. In doing so we generate $8 of industrial activity $4 I keep as profit and $4 of which goes to the workforce. Some portion of that money goes directly into the local economy, my workers buy goods, see movies, eat out etc and some of the money made from widgets ends up as taxes that pay for schools and roads and other good things in Bugspit.
So far so good but I’m a greedy B*d and it comes to my attention that if I could make widgets in Wi-Me China the labour costs are half. So in Wi-Me my fixed costs are still $2, but my workers cost only $2 a widget, which means that I make a whole $6 in profit all of which I repatriate to the US of A.
My profits just went up 50%, the stockmarket loves the news because to the investor better return for investment is always good news. Here’s the problem though. When I made goods in Idaho the wealth created was $8 all of which stayed in the US and funded other businesses and local taxes in Idaho. Now making widgets still produces $8 of new wealth but $2 of that stays in China and very little of the $6 coming back goes to Bugspit Idaho. Instead of Idaho having tax revenues from widget makers they actually have unemployed folks both from layoffs from the widget factory and from the numerous local businesses widget makers used to frequent.
Meanwhile in Wi-Me folks actually start to have buying power to purchase goods and this in turn results in secondary business that sell to widget makers. Now an internationalist will tell you that eventually Wi_Me’s widget makers will buy US made goods and send some of the $2/widget back to the US. However while that is true it doesn’t happen in even a medium timeframe.
So in short, when an illegal works in the US the value of his labour and the wealth he produces becomes part of the US economy and generates secondary economic activity. These people need to buy food, buy clothes ride the bus or buy fuel depending on your viewpoint. All of which puts a portion of that wealth back into the US economy. A worker in China creates wealth in China that is part of the Chinese economy and generates secondary economic effects there.
So you see there is no contradiction. If the choice is between creating wealth in the US and creating it abroad and just repatriating profit, there is a bigger economic lever effect in creating wealth here.
In your world the choice is between hiring an illegal at $3/hr and paying an American $8/hr. That's actually a false choice. In truth the industry could not pay $8/hr and remain competative with imports at $3/hr. If the immigrants went the work would go abroad. In work that produces movable product the $8/hr American worker loses nothing to the $3/hr illegal because he would never be
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Illegal aliens murder dozens of US citizens every day in USA. I agree 100% with Alex Jones today. Send all soldiers to the borders and massacre all illegal aliens with helicopter gunships. THAT'S what the military is for, not slaughtering 2.5-million innocent folks in Iraq who never invaded USA. Then arrest all employers, landlords and banksters of illegal aliens, and seize their assets.
Mexico invaded USA in both World War 1 and World War 2 to support the Germans, in the Plan of San Diego. THIS IS WAR!!!
www.vdare.com/Sailer/060129_sandiego.htm
www.infowars.com/articles/immigration/deisyseis_partone.htm
"You can't stop the signal!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV
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Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
https://video.indymedia.org/en/2007/02/716.shtml
http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=8cd2bd0379340120e7a6ed00f2a53ee5
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DRIVE BY MIND CONTROL: FREE TV EPISODES ONLINE
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Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/
Heh, Heh, Heh.
Soon our Mexican allies will be in control of your helpless land. Already they are peeing in your swimming pools and infesting your burgers with their bodily fluids.
You are doomed Gringo.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
And somehow you missed ALL the undeserved snipes Fletch2 was making all along - like these:
Would be nice if you would stay on topic.
I think my understanding of economics is actually ahead of yours
I find opening my mouth to speak is better than mumbling through clenched teeth, which I suspect you do a lot.
So your "observation" proves nothing, unless you stopped and asked her which of course you didn't because that would mean you'd have to treat her as a person and not a political football.
Now how did that happen?
Remember how important context is Rue. 'Would be nice if you stay on topic' came first. It was Fletch's opinion that Signy was veering off topic, it's been known to happen. The rest of your pulled quotes came after Signy's snipes which proves Fletch has human emotions. BTW, it wasn't Fletch lamenting 'what did I do to deserve this', it was Signy. Loyalty, while admirable, does not make right.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
And somehow you missed ALL the undeserved snipes Fletch2 was making all along - like these:
Would be nice if you would stay on topic.
Well it would be nice, he changes focus when his ideas are refuted.
Quote:
I think my understanding of economics is actually ahead of yours
Which is in answer to---
Quote:
There are so many excpetions to this statement - both specific and theoretical- that I think you should go back and REALLY study economics, and not the gobbledy-gook that someone filled your head with.
Quote:
I find opening my mouth to speak is better than mumbling through clenched teeth, which I suspect you do a lot.
In answer to --
Quote:
Except illegal aliens, who ride the bus. You're sort of arguing out of both sides of your mouth.
Quote:
So your "observation" proves nothing, unless you stopped and asked her which of course you didn't because that would mean you'd have to treat her as a person and not a political football.
Which I charge is fair comment. He saw this woman loaded down and waiting for a bus and came to the conclusions
1) She's illegal
2) She's riding the bus because she is poor
3) the family is too poor to own a vehicle
4) all illegals are too poor to own a vehicle
However he never once actually stopped and confirmed any of that. He didnt need to because it fitted with his pre-existing prejustices.
He then uses his interpretation of what he saw to refute my position based on fact.
Sorry Rue if you will be blind to the remarks of your friends dont expect anyone to see you as an unbiased observer.
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This should cover you both.
FLETCH2
Monday, June 18, 2007 - 10:09
Would be nice if you would stay on topic. (attack)
SIGNYM
Monday, June 18, 2007 - 11:59
the distribution of wealth and the effect that illegal- and therefore cheap- -labor has on American wages is a BIG part of anti (illegal) immigrant passion (answer)
you should go back and REALLY study economics, and not the gobbledy-gook that someone filled your head with (return)
FLETCH2
Monday, June 18, 2007 - 13:42
I think my understanding of economics is actually ahead of yours at least I realise that it is possible to price yourself out of a job (new attack)
I find openning my mouth to speak is better than mumbling through clenched teeth, which I suspect you do a lot. (and another one !)
SIGNYM
Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 09:37
So just out of curiosity, how much economics did you study? (neutral approach)
FLETCH2
Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 20:51
The problem both you and Rue have is that you never let reality get in the way of your preconceptions. (yet another undeserved personal attack)
And so on ...
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Context Rue. What about all the other posts between the two? You can't just go through the posts and pick out the stuff you want and pronunce "HA! I'm right and you're all wrong".
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Oops! sorry Fletch2. In my head I thought you had already won this argument...I forgot how relentless ruse can be.........and irrational.......Well, it's true.........
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Context Rue. What about all the other posts between the two? You can't just go through the posts and pick out the stuff you want and pronunce "HA! I'm right and you're all wrong".
Why not? Nothing has stopped her before.........Well, it's true.........
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You're right Fletch, it's not pretty. And instead of just saying "I won't answer you because you're too stupid" humor me. Show me HOW I'm stupid. Be detailed. Explain it to me like I'm the idiot that you think I am, step by step. I don't bite. 
I have a different definition of "wealth" which you have not asked about.
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