I don't think Kaylee is from Harvest

POSTED BY: PhoenixRose
UPDATED: Sunday, June 24, 2007 16:39
VIEWED: 11849
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STARRBABY

Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:35 AM

You responded while I was typing my last post. You pretty much defended yourself, so I retract my points . . .useless for us both to be making them.

PHOENIXROSE

Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:39 AM

Yes, thank you Starrbaby, that's the very point I'm trying to make.

Quote:
Originally posted by Starrbaby:
On a similar idea - I have a question. Before the BDM, I read in many fics that Wash and Zoe's last name was Warren. Where the heck did people get this? Wasn't it Hoban Washburne and Zoe Allyene? (or something like that) Where did "Warren" come from?

This one actually did come from Joss. The names had not been set in stone before the show got the axe. We never knew Zoe's maiden name, and Wash's last name was being kicked around as 'Warren'. In a similar vein, Shepherd Book's first name was being kicked around as 'Merria' before it was settled as 'Derrial' in the final script. The 'working names' should no longer be thought of as canon, but they were the only mildly official names that we had before the movie. So that's where those are from.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

REGINAROADIE

Saturday, June 16, 2007 6:24 AM

Since I also am from the prairies (hey Sigmanuki, we're neighbors. I'm from Saskatchewan), I buy the "Kaylee from Harvest and has large family" scenario that's almost canon. And speaking from experience, mechanics and agriculture truly do intertwine, so I buy the farming angle.

The way I see it, Harvest is a lot like Saskatchewan and Manitoba, and Shadow is more like Montana, where there is farming, but it's more of the livestock kind than the grain kind. And that the Core world are like Toronto. That's how I imagine it anyways.

I find all this interesting in that with what little we've been given about the Firefly 'verse, the fandom has been able to expand and hypothesize beyond what's been established to create a fully functioning 'verse that's been probably thought out far beyond anything Joss had imagined. And that all these things, like Kaylee's background, the Alliance and the Academy and such have been discussed and used so much that they're now pretty much accepted as canon.

I think it's easier for people to write fanfics for shows like FIREFLY that don't have years of canon to draw from and fully formed characters, as opposed to a show that's either been on the air for ages, or at least have an established world. Like I could never write a BUFFY fanfic or a STAR TREK fic or anything like that, because the world and characters that they've created is so rigid and specific that anything you write for them most likely is so out of character and different tonally from the established series that it would ne next to impossible to replicate. But with FIREFLY, because there isn't too much established, one's imagination can run free and do whatever. So it wouldn't be out of character for River to suddenly be the lead of a rock band, because it's never been established if she's musically inclined, if rock music still exists 500 years later, and if the scenario would have eventually presented itself. Who knows, maybe in the FIREFLY verse, there would be rock concerts like the one described in THE RESTAURANT AND THE END OF THE UNIVERSE, where the music is so loud that the audience has to be two planets over so that the soundwaves don't deafen them. We don't know that, so what's to say that there isn't?

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"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

MAL4PREZ

Saturday, June 16, 2007 6:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Please note that I'm tired of discussing these issues and as such won't acknowledge any attempt at discussing such points.

Jeez. Bitter much? So... how does a discussion of Kaylee's planet of origin become a personal attack? Hey, it's just a show. May I suggest that you mix yourself a martini and find a hot tub or something? I recommend vanilla vodka and creme de cocoa. Always good for an attitude adjustment.

Anyway - I think you're missing PR's point. Sure, Kaylee *could* be from Harvest. No one's saying that's impossible, just that it's not a given. There are other options, and it'd be interesting to read something different about our perky little mechanic.

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that the general state of fic might improve if more writers questioned their assumptions. It does seem like there's a lot of recycled material going around, especially as to the way Kaylee is presented. Honestly, I'd gotten so sick of reading about her that I could hardly make myself write her when I needed to.

As to Harvest's climate... remember, folks - all planets in the `verse, no matter what their names or how they might appear from space, really look like California.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

KAYNA

Saturday, June 16, 2007 6:42 PM

There have been a few comments here about the assumed size of Kaylee's family and I have to say that I never saw her as a girl with a huge family. For one, she's a social and chatty type but we've never once heard her mention any family member but her daddy. She seems like the type who, if she had family, would mention them now and then. I alway imagined it as just being her and her dad. She didn't have much of a family growing up so she builds one where she can.

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Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

PHOENIXROSE

Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I'll go so far as to say that the general state of fic might improve if more writers questioned their assumptions.

I'm inclined to agree with you.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kayna:
I alway imagined it as just being her and her dad. She didn't have much of a family growing up so she builds one where she can.

I like that idea. She did mention 'folks' though, so she's probably got a mother there, too. Maybe one older sibling, but as you said she seems like the type who would talk about ahving a sister (I already said why I don't think she had a brother...)

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

LEIASKY

Sunday, June 17, 2007 10:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

Besides, honestly, if Kaylee had a lot of brothers, or even one brother, she would have learned to not be so sensitive when a guy said something unintentionally insulting. Come on now.

You know, I really like this train of thought. As much as I write about Kaylee, I've never thought about this.

I've only ever considered that she's so sensitive to Simon's unintentional insults because she's more emotionally interested in him than she has been previously.

If Kaylee had brothers, perhaps she wouldn't appear to be so free with her body - since they would know better than anyone what they want out of a girl - which, in most cases, would just be sex.

I'm taking a break from writing but I had to comment on this because its a little eye-opening thing mentioned in the middle of something else being discussed. And - it might be something that will find its way into fic one of these days. Thanks, PR:)

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

ESHVA

Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:57 AM

By coincidence, I've just been writing something where I needed a home planet for Kaylee, and I decided to go for Harvest. The attraction of using fanon is that it tends to be easily accepted by readers, which is handy if it's a detail that doesn't matter much in the story context. If the focus of the story is something non-fanon, then keeping background details nice and fanon-standard avoids diverting attention from what you're actually trying to say.

But I agree that fanon does become self-reinforcing, which is a bad thing, especially when it comes to characterisation. Everyone writes the same old fanon versions, and alternative approaches get labelled OOC.

Also by coincidence, I was thinking about Kaylee's family. I don't know about the big extended family, but I do tend to assume she has a couple (or more) of older brothers. I'm very sure she's not an oldest child - my impression is that she's always been the darling baby of the family, and has moved into the same role on Serenity. My feeling is that she does have older brothers - some of her interactions with Jayne and Mal have that feel about them. Probably the main reason I think she has older brothers is because the person I've known in real life who was most like Kaylee was a youngest child with two older brothers.

As to how Kaylee reacts to Simon, I don't thinks there's necessarily any connection to the older brother thing. She copes fine with Jayne teasing her. Basically IMO, with Simon, she just doesn't react well to not getting what she wants.

SCHOONER

Tuesday, June 19, 2007 7:45 PM

Has anyone taken the angle that Kaylee may have lost some family after joining the crew of Serenity? Her actions in "The Message" seem to me to indicate someone who is very lonely or mourning on the inside. I could see something happening whle she was away, which might explain why she is determinedly cheerful, but doesn't talk much about her family.

LEIASKY

Wednesday, June 20, 2007 3:38 PM

I think Kaylee just likes everyone, and her reactions in The Message were just because she felt sorry for what happened to Tracy and mourned him like she would anyone else.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

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