I don't think Kaylee is from Harvest

POSTED BY: PhoenixRose
UPDATED: Sunday, June 24, 2007 16:39
VIEWED: 11849
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STARRBABY

Friday, June 15, 2007 9:50 PM

Perhaps Reynolds became a very common name. I mean, look at all the Smiths, Changs, Jones, Patels, etc. that we have now.

STEGASAURUS

Friday, June 15, 2007 10:43 PM

I thought at the very beginning of Trash they were talking about Monty and mentioned him as Mal's relation. Or possibly that Monty introduced Mal as relation to Yosaphbridge. Gah! Now I can't remember!

Edit: Well...I read the transcript. No mention whatsoever of relation. I guess I made it up in my head.

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, June 15, 2007 11:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Leiasky:
Kaylee's home planet isn't known so fic authors use what they want.

I am aware of that, but all that I have read use the planet Harvest, which is indeed listed among the allied planets in the Serenity Visual Companion, but does not look like a place where anyone could be called a 'prairie harpy'. That's all I'm saying, that there are several planets listed that do look like they'd have, y'know, prairies. Prairies might have their share of plant life, but lush and green they ain't.

And having re-watched Trash and read the script in volume two of the Firefly Official Companion today, Monty's last name is never given in the opening credits, and he's not listed in the end credits, but they aren't related, they're old war buddies.
"You and Monty fought in the war together, right?"
"Mm-hm."
"Yeah, I smelled that. The war buddy bond is tough to crack. I knew if I shot you I'd lose Monty anyway."

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

RIVERGIRL

Saturday, June 16, 2007 1:01 AM

Harvest seems to be a logical name for a planet of farmers

perhaps it was a food stuffs source planet

maybe the terra forming is failing and the work isnt there much

anyway whatever planet they were on for repairs in that episode is the planet Kaylee is from

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

PHOENIXROSE

Saturday, June 16, 2007 1:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rivergirl:
Harvest seems to be a logical name for a planet of farmers

Who ever said it was a planet of farmers?

Kaylee was a mechanic. Her daddy said she had natural talent. She worked for her daddy, when he had work. I don't really get 'farmer' from that.

See, this is the very thing. A lot of fanfic writers are drawing things from other fanfic. Not to say there's anything inherently wrong with that, and it's understandable since there's limited canon sources to draw on, but sometimes things pop up that are supported by nothing that's canon, and people pop them into the missing places in the backstory, motives, minds, etc, without even stopping to see if they do fit with the canon. Kaylee coming from a world of farmers called Harvest, or even better being raised on a farm on Harvest isn't just non-canon, it contradicts what canon we have, which was that her father was probably a mechanic. And that where she lived was a prairie. And that the planet labeled 'Harvest' in the Visual Companion, which is canon is very lush and green looking, making it unlikely that it's a world of prairies and mechanic shops without too much work. Same thing happens with quite a few of the characters (I started a thread about one that bugged me with Zoe awhile back) but right now I'm focusing on Kaylee not being from Harvest.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

STARRBABY

Saturday, June 16, 2007 2:49 AM

I know what you mean. Many of us have developed the idea that she comes from a huge family with lots of brothers, sisters, Aunts, Uncles. Other than her "folks" have we heard ANYTHING of Kaylee's family?

PHOENIXROSE

Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:05 AM

That's a good point. No, we haven't heard a gorramn thing about Kaylee's family. I think people take her sunny nature and slight backwater accent and associate it with 'big-family farm girl' which is really just a stereotype, isn't it? Mal might have been raised on a ranch, but they can't all have had that kind of life. How boring would that be in terms of backstory?
Besides, honestly, if Kaylee had a lot of brothers, or even one brother, she would have learned to not be so sensitive when a guy said something unintentionally insulting. Come on now.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

SIGMANUNKI

Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:15 AM

1) Farmers are /required/ to know *a lot* of things about mechanical stuff. Or failing that, they would be /required/ to have someone on staff or a shop where they could get things fixed.

So, Kaylee's dad could either be a farmer (giving the work to his daughter) or a mechanic that has mostly seasonal work (also see below).

2) Prairie Harpy. Not sure how much about prairie's you know, but prairie's are where *a lot* of farmers live. I should know, I grew up in Manitoba (the great plains).

And if you think that a great deal of farmers can change the landscape significantly enough to change the view from space, just check out orbital photos of our own planet. For the most part, ya don't really see the cities nor the farms. Just the changes due to the different climates. Especially as you go farther out.

And just because where Serenity landed was a prairie does _not_ mean that the /entire/ planet was one big prairie.

3) Lack of work. There are *tonnes* of reasons why work would be short. If her daddy ran his own shop, he could have a small time struggling business. Or if he was a farmer, there could have been poor weather over the past little while to a number of years. This does happen IRL so there is precedence.

Another reason might be that the farm equipment is communal. So, fixing them would probably be shared as well.

Or a simpler reason could be that he's a drunk. Regardless of how wonderful the conditions on the planet are, he'd be hard pressed to 'make things work.' I got a touch of knowledge about this one as one of my Uncle's is a raging alcoholic and if he didn't drink, he'd probably be making in the 6 figures right now.

i.e. there are *tonnes* of *very* plausible explanations that would make Kaylee coming from Harvest *very* easy to believe.

And in case you think that I'd just one of those people that stretch to make things work, I'm not. In fact, I'm one of those people that find a significant number of inconsistencies between the BDS and the BDM. Please note that I'm tired of discussing these issues and as such won't acknowledge any attempt at discussing such points.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

PHOENIXROSE

Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Not sure how much about prairie's you know

Hello? Colorado native here? I think we're rather known for our prairies. Where the buffalo roam and all that.
And when did I say that the entire planet was prairie? I said repeatedly that it seemed less likely that such a lush looking planet would have prairie. Especially considering that worlds in the 'verse seem to be kind of homogenous in terms of landscape. It's one of the details that doesn't sit right, but there it is. Are you reading what I say or just kind of skimming over it?
Also, saying "I work for him when he got work, which isn't often lately" still does not say to me that it was a farm with a bad growing season. Farmers wouldn't word it that way, in my experience, so it still says to me that he's got a shop. Farmer's kids also wouldn't really say they 'work for' their parents if they live on a farm. It's expected that kids help tend the land if they live on a farm. They would be 'working the farm' but probably not 'working for the parents'. I should know, I'm friends with and related to enough of them.
AND! How do you know that 'Harvest' would be a planet of farmers anyway? It was probably named as soon as terraforming was done and they had no idea how it would turn out in the long run. Shadow certainly doesn't look like a dark or forboding planet to be called 'Shadow' (yeah, it was probably called that for the series because it was destroyed in the wat, but we're not looking at the outside of the 'verse for this, but the inside.)
You say there's a strong possibility that Kaylee is from Harvest. I'm just saying there's a strong possibility that she isn't, and yet fanfic places her there, as far as I've seen without exception, with a huge family. I don't think a different homeworld/backstory/family structure for Kaylee in fanfic would be a bad thing. I get tired of reading the same gorramn story over and over.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

STARRBABY

Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:33 AM

You make some very compelling arguments, and I'm impressed. I also agree with the plausability that Kaylee *may* be from Harvest.

However, I think the point that PR is trying to make is that these are all assumptions. There is no hard evidence of that sort of thing in any cannon. Many people take it as cannon that Kaylee is from Harvest, and that her family is a farming family. They recieve this "cannon" from fanfic. Weather Kaylee is from Harvest or not, we never learned this from Joss' work.

I'm sure PR is simply voicing her annoyance that many flans have mistaken fanfic for Joss' word.

On a similar idea - I have a question. Before the BDM, I read in many fics that Wash and Zoe's last name was Warren. Where the heck did people get this? Wasn't it Hoban Washburne and Zoe Allyene? (or something like that) Where did "Warren" come from?

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